Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 21:10:03 -0600
His is unfortunately seldom heard or performed. His adagios are very
characteristic: long, slow, solemn and mystic, with great crescendos and
powerful climaxes, very difficult to perform with a good effect. He dedicated
his last (9th) symphony to God, hoping that God would feel it worthy and
would grant him the time to finish it. He died without writing the 4th
movement, but it doesn't matter: it was worthy, and God deserved such an
awe-inspiring monument of symphonic music (when it is well performed).
He was born September 4th 1824 in Ansfelden (13e55/47n53) at 4:15 a.m.,
and died October 11th 1896 in Vienna (48n13/16e22) at 3:30 p.m.
I cannot explain his music with his chart, birth or death, not even
with the available centaurs so far. Anyone interested in Bruckner or loving
his music wants to give it a try?
His 9th symphony has always been to me the best musical example available
of what Pluto is astrologically. Now I am willing to think that it might
be one of the "giant" (longer orbits) centaurs. So far I don't know which.
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 21:00:49 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] Re: Bruckner
This may be a digression from astrology, but I am very emotional about
this music, so let me express myself and share my feelings with you all.
The impression his music gives depends heavily on the conductor's vision
and the quality of the recording. Bruckner's darkness here has never spoken
to me anything having to do with sickness or with "dark" per se... with
death, yes! but it is the consummation of life/death in a vision of tremendous
power and redeeming glory.
Unfortunately many conductors are just plain charlatans when it comes
to a performance of this music. I have been listening to Bruckner's 9th
since I was 15 years old, and have heard many recordings that sound more
like jokes. This was the rule in the composer's own lifetime, for which
he was always mocked.
His 9th symphony was not "to be" his greatest work: it is, and its darkness
is a glorious darkness of cosmic dimensions, the consummation of death,
like a vision outside of time where life and death, light and darkness,
come together with glorious power. It has nothing to do with the "farewells
to life" of other composers near death. It is more like a monument to the
glory and the power of God.
It is First-Ray music, a magnificent representative of Pluto where "darkness"
becomes cosmic and lyrical and embraces the Glory and the Light.
Sorry for the digression and the emotional exaltation. After reading
Hugh's post I listened again the old 1966 Karajan recording with the Berlin
Philarmonic, and I felt how each note pushes my blood to ecstatic moments
when I overflow and expand with power...
Bruckner's music is difficult to hear, and can be heavy and boring.
But don't think that I am alone in my feelings. Here is one quote for you
to ponder about:
<<Wagner was the catalyst which joined Bruckner's expressive amalgam
and made it the vehicle of symphonies which speak of glory, glory and still
more glory>> [A.J.B. Hutchings, The Pelican History of Music, 1968]
Yes. Glory 3 times when it is well performed. And a 4th time if it is
the 9th Symphony.
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 21:53:23 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] Re: Bruckner
The source [of his data] is a photograph of the birth certificate which
appears in p.13 of "Anton Bruckner, Musik und Leben" by Leopold Nowak (Rudolf
Trauner Verlag, 1973). It says "uhr fruh", which I assume is a.m. The time
of death appears in p.279 of this same book.
As I mentioned in another post, I cannot find his music is in chart,
and would be delighted if someone can help me see it.
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 04:34:07 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] astrology of Bruckner I
I'm going to try to derive ideal astrological characteristics from Bruckner's
music, and then try to see if I can find some of these characteristics
in his birth or his death chart. It will take time, and it will be subjective
because astrological symbols do not speak the same things to different
people. I will use the well-known centaurs (by well-known I mean well-determined
orbits: 11 of them).
As a guide to the exercise, I will use the commentaries on his music
found in the Karajan CD I've been talking about (Deutsche Grammophon "Galleria"
#429 904-2). The author of the English text is Robert Simpson.
Let's see what he says and how and I can translate his language into
ideal astrological principles (of course you are invited if interested
to give your own interpretation). This is what Robert Simpson says:
<<Brahms, who mastered his own art, is often quoted as Bruckner's
superior in matters where there is no ground for fair comparison: the giant
scale of the latter's conceptions makes useless the swift play of keys
that dominates the world of Beethoven and Brahms.>>
Brahms is often mentioned because it was Bruckner's contemporary, and
Bruckner is always mentioned as an inferior musician. This unfair comparison
and judgement as inferior in general accompanied Bruckner all his life,
both socially and in terms of his musical abilities. The result of this
was his disastrous practice of revisions that produced works of inferior
quality only to please his critics and "friends", and a confusing legacy
of several versions of his symphonies. Were it not for this compliance
to external criticism, he would have had time enough to finish his 9th
symphony before he died.
Astrologically and psychologically this point can be very complex. How
do you think this type of insecurity shows in a chart? Bruckner was never
a culturally refined man. He was a provincial "school teacher" who
came to Vienna but was never accepted by Vienna's high-class, and the music
critics always showed severe problems to appreciate his music. Recognition
came, but too late, when he was a very old man, and the enormous importance
he now has in the history of music and the recognition of his genius is
a matter of the last decades only.
Perhaps, astrologically, we can see this in his 1st house Sun in 11
Virgo and his 10th house Saturn in 7 Gemini. He was a simple man of humble
peasant origins, incapable of making demands or of inspiring fear, and
completely alien to the sophistication and complicated prejudices, favoritisms,
and vested interests characteristic of Vienna's musical activity.
Ok. But Robert Simpson used an interesting expression, he said: <<the
giant scale of Bruckner's conceptions>>. This definitely is NOT a
Virgo Sun in square with Saturn! This is what I have more problems with,
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 11:15:52 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] astrology of Bruckner II
<<the giant scale of Bruckner's conceptions>>
The word "giant" makes one think immediately in Jupiter. Bruckner had
the ascendant around 28 Leo, and Jupiter is found in 3 Leo in the 12th.
This may account for his religious impulse and the cathedral- like nature
of his music. Leo could explain the very solemn and grandiose nature
of his compositions, and the 12th house Jupiter has affinity with the organ
pipes of which Bruckner was a supreme player and improvisor. No one ever
denied any recognition to Bruckner as a master of the organ improvisation.
Nice. But when you hear his symphonies, and particularly his 9th
symphony, you realize that there is something more involved, something
more cosmic and much more in the foreground than a 12th house Jupiter (putting
this Jupiter closer to the Ascendant and assuming an earlier birth time
could work --as I have seen "3 a.m." mentioned-- but this is going against
the documentary evidence). There is, simply put, a mystery. His music is
mysterious and powerful in a strangely Plutonian way...
Let's continue with the commentaries by Robert Simpson:
<<The wide, slow sweep of his thought, though it creates clear
symmetries, demands that its hearer be free from preconceptions.>>
Nice phrase: <<wide, slow sweep of his thought...>>. This doesn't
sound like Jupiter, and Jupiter is confined in the 12th anyway. It may
be Saturn in Gemini (the "clear symmetries"), but Saturn is not that "wide"...
We are reaching the world of Uranus-Neptune-Pluto here, but in a more mysterious
way, perhaps a centaurean way (the long-period ones. I feel especially
strongly TF35 here, a "Plutonian" centaur).
Asbolus and Pylenor are also in Leo in the 12th, half-way between Jupiter
and the Ascendant near Regulus. Yes! Regulus! Pylenor in particular is
in 23 Leo, close to the Ascendant in 28 Leo. Maybe this Pylenor is a major
clue. I can feel it in his physical appearance from his portraits, and
it is also a good sign of his poverty or peasant simplicity. Anyway, see
what R. Simpson says:
<<Great harm has been done by the hack-neyed cant about the old
man's "simplicity" and "naivete": one glance at his head is enough to show
that the serene trustfulness of the face is not all. There is the broad,
high cranium, a massive and impressive dome, to be observed.>>
Sounds like Leo. The rising Pylenor in the 12th conjunct the Ascendant
may have accentuated the Leonine characteristics. Maybe there is no need
to falsify the birth time...
(to be continued)
weight and significance of Pylenor is confirmed by its exact (less than
1 degree) quincunx with the Moon: Pylenor=23Le40, Moon=24Cp11
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 15:13:54 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] astrology of Bruckner III
"...There is the broad, high cranium, a massive and impressive dome,
to be observed." (R. Simpson)
This is what M.E. Jones says about Leo's physical appearance:
<<The head is more than often full and curved, even wholly dome-shaped.>>
[from Astrology How and Why it Works]
So, as we said, it seems that the Leo Ascendant is correct and that
it is emphasized by some planet on or near it in Leo. Ignoring the centaurs,
we could say it is Jupiter, but this planet is entrenched in the 12th house,
while the centaurs, still in the 12th, are closer and seem to give the
Plutonian dimension of mystery (Asbolus) and of social awkwardness (Pylenor)
that we are looking for.
We continue with R. Simpson's commentary:
<<Bruckner wields whole paragraphs as themes, so that his forms
fall into well-defined sections, like the plain divisions of churches.>>
This may be related to his Virgo Sun rising. although the comparison
with churches leads more into the 12th house Jupiter to me. Let's see:
<<Indeed, the music is demonstrably written in terms of cathedral-like
acoustics, and its periodic pauses are fully effective only in a building
that can create awesome dying echoes: this is true also of many of his
remarkable endings, where often the full blaze of the orchestra is often
cut off. These works need to be played in the right conditions... there
is no reason why first-rate orchestras should not make regular visits to
cathedrals to play Bruckner.>>
Ok. What in astrology is the equivalent of "cathedral-like acoustics"
and awesome dying echoes"?
I have suggested that this can be related to Jupiter in Leo in the 12th
(especially the word "awesome"). Maybe secondarily it can be related to
his Pluto alone in the 8th house. It could be, but neither of them is focal
in any way, and this is a very fundamental characteristic of Bruckner's
music. Jupiter of course is more important than Pluto because it is in
the same sign as the Ascendant, but in terms of focality, Pylenor and Asbolus
also in the 12th outpower him, and Pylenor outpowers Asbolus.
One has to note that this 12th-house Pylenor in 23 Leo, only 4 degrees
from the Ascendant, is in square to a 4th house Pholus in 25 Scorpio. Neither
the Sun, Moon, or Node are aspecting them, but the Ascendant is, and it
lets us guess that maybe it is not in 28 Leo but around 25 or 24 Leo. If
we move back the birthtime from 4:15 to 4:00 a.m., we will get exactly
this and the MC in 15 Taurus, putting the IC in the midpoint of TF35 (13
Scorpio) and Mars (17 Scorpio), effectively bringing them in conjunction.
This Mars/TF35 could be a good explanation of the colossal (TF35) force
(Mars) of many of his orchestral effects, especially the very heavy use
of the brass section (Mars) which is characteristic of his style.
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 09:51:57 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] the astrology of Bruckner IV
I will try to deal with Bruckner's 9th Symphony now, astrologically.
Of course it will be brief. But before that, I think you will find interesting
what the Britannica says about him:
<<To Bruckner, composition had the significance of a liturgical
art, and he brought to it the same zeal that a God-fearing priest might
bring to the enactment of the sacred rites. It is precisely this spiritual
content what has caused his music to remain a closed book to many people,
even when the passage of time has swept away many of the misconceptions
about the composer. Bruckner's intense devoutness was an essential component
of his personality, for he appears to have felt most acutely that he was
an instrument of God. A measure of his greatness lies in the purely altruistic
nature of his life and work, undefiled by materialistic values>>
Extraordinary. There is something that might help us understand this
in his chart:
True Node = 7,27 Capricorn
Neptune = 6,55 Capricorn
Apart from the Pylenor-Asbolus-12th house Jupiter combination I don't
find much else of a mystical nature. I'm glad I have recently started to
use the nodes in charts, because this is a testimony of the importance
of strong nodal configurations. And yes, like Catherine says (thanks, Catherine!),
this may be also a sign that this Neptune is "responsible" for the cathedral
acoustics required by his music. It was probably the combination of this
with the Leo preponderance accentuated by the centaurs what gave him that
mystic zeal and faith.
The Jupiter-Asbolus-Mars-TF35 combination probably explains the cosmic
dimensions of his language and the terrifying force of his sound effects.
By the way, if you ever want to experience the most touching and sublime
expression of his mystic yearning, try listening to the long adagio of
his 8th symphony, but make sure that the recording is of the "original
version", since often a shorter version is performed that is miles away
from the quality of the original. This adagio lasts about half an hour,
and is one of the most sublime adagios of symphonic literature.
The first 3 movements of his 9th Symphony were finished in 1894, and
he died in 1896. But he spent those last years revising his other works
and producing versions of inferior quality. When he saw himself in his
sickbed in 1896, he wrote: "I dedicated my earlier symphonies to this or
that noble friend of the arts, the last, the Ninth, shall be dedicated
to God. Should He accept it, and in order that this unfinished work might
have a conclusion, let my 'Te Deum' be performed with it after my death,
for it is after all particularly fitting for this holy purpose."
God certainly deserved it, but he died, and the original performance
of the 9th was in 1903, unfortunately with a sweeping and unhappy instrumental
retouching that completely distorted Bruckner's original intentions. It
was not until 1932 in Munich when the original Bruckner's version was performed.
This is what the conductor on this occasion, Friedrich von Hausegger, said
of this symphony:
<<It is no longer the touching departure of an individual being
from this life, rather it is a higher synthesis of life and death, full
of the mystery of the eternal spirit.>>
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 11:13:18 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] the astrology of Bruckner V
We continue with Robert Simpson:
<<The vast first movement is based on a clear plan of statement
and expanded counter statement with a great coda added. There are three
elements in the colossal statement.>>
Here we find these qualifying words again: "vast" and "colossal". What
do you think is "colossal" and "vast" in astrology?. Whatever it is it
must be beyond Jupiter and Saturn... Perhaps a trans-Neptunian or a centaur
not yet found, or perhaps TF35 (which is what I feel), but the "colossal
vastness" of the 9th Symphony is too much in the foreground of Bruckner's
composition style, it should be something very basic in his chart.
Perhaps the death chart can help us here. At death, we find the following:
1996TL66 = 8,04 Capricorn
n.Neptune = 6,55 Capricorn
n Tr.Node = 7,37 Capricorn
This combination certainly qualifies for cosmic vastness!
d.Uranus = 21,39 Sco
d.QB1 = 21,49 Sco
d.Node = 21,53 Aqu
d.Pholus = 22,03 Tau r
This Uranus/QB1 conjunction combined with the Node falls in the 9th
house in the death chart, while the Ascendant falls around 25 Aquarius!
So definitely the death chart gives us important clues about the haracteristics
of his 9th Symphony. Let's read on R. Simpson:
<<There are three elements in the colossal statement. 1- A long,
slow crescendo [NOTE: these are the very eccentric and very slow orbits!],
containing several melodic ideas [NOTE: the aspects, or the planets it
crosses], rises gradually to a terrific unison theme in the full orchestra...>>
This "terrific unison" in the full orchestra sounds like a conjunction
between the "terrible" TL66 or TF35. When you listen to it in a good recording
and a good stereo, you will want to jump out of your seats and take refuge,
because it is terrifying and smashing like a cyclone. In fact, this
is where many orchestras fail, simply because the trombone section lacks
the lung-power, and when it has it, the balance is so distorted in favor
of the brass that the effect sounds very ugly. But blame the orchestra
and the conductor, buy a better stereo... God is giving you a taste of
His will power!
R. Simpson continues:
<<2- [the 2nd element of the "colossal statement"] is a flowing
section starting in A major, creating its own smaller climax that falls
into an intensely quiet, strange link to 3- a more severe paragraph opening
in D minor, in mood between (1) and (2), moving to a heavy earthbound crisis
which clears at the last moment. These three parts are roughly equal in
length. Then comes the expanded counter-statement>>
"a flowing section" is where there is no crossing, when the object is
free. Maybe it is the Neptune realm. more "liquid" and with smaller climaxes.
"Intensely quiet" may be an aphelion or perihelion, a trine aspect... The
"more severe" paragraph seems Plutonian or Uranian. The "expanded counter-statement
is the other half of the orbit, after the perihelion.
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 11:46:46 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] the astrology of Bruckner, VI
<<Then comes the expanded counter-statement: (1) [the first element
of the statement] comes over a long pedal F and grows in four huge waves
to the unison theme, itself magnified into two even larger sweeps, the
first enveloped in furious, titanic string passages, and the second tramping
and heaving towards an almost seismic irruption in F minor. The mood here
is not unlike that of Book I in 'Paradise Lost'.
<<From this, slow, gently, circling figures drift into (2) [the
second element of the statement], which comes as a great relief, and is
fused with (3) [the third element of the statement] into a single group,
with the intensified end of (3) as its climax. Solemn cavernous cadences
then herald the mighty coda which, using figures omitted from the counter
statement of (1), raises the most awe-inspiring sounds of this piece.>>
That's the First Movement, and I will end here. The instructions for
the conductor given by Bruckner are: "Feierlich [solemn], misterioso".
Does it sound Plutonian? Could someone translate this into astrological
language? What is the astrological counterpart of:
"grows in huge waves"
"tramping and heaving"
"a seismic irruption"
"the mood of Paradise Lost Book I"
"slow, gently circling figures"
"a great relief"
"solemn, cavernous cadences"
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 11:24:13 -0600
Subject: the astrology of Bruckner
I think one can see this in 3 ways:
1- The general tendencies shown in the birth chart, which should also
be shown as general tendencies in the music.
2- The particular tendencies of the period during which the symphony
was written, especially when it stands apart from the other symphonies
for some reason.
3- The complementary view offered by the death chart, especially in
the case of this Symphony which deals with ultimate things and was left
unfinished by the death of the composer.
With respect to #1, there are many things in the chart that speak of
his music, and different ways of seeing or interpreting them. In my opinion,
one has to look for the main personal signatures, and organize the information
hierarchically by means of:
a- the Sun, Moon, and Ascendant.
b- planets in or very near the angles.
c- lunar node configurations
d- patterns revealed or emphasized at death with those same factors
And all of it with small orbs. So, in Bruckner's chart, one finds:
-the ascendant is in 28 Leo, probably in 26.
-Pylenor very close in 23 Leo: a major key from the 12th.
-Pylenor in exact quincunx with the Moon (orb=0,31')
-the Sun, ruler of the Asc. and of Pylenor, rising in the 1st in 11
-Saturn in the 10th in 7 Gemini separating from the square to the Sun
Uranus in the 5th in 11 Capricorn is in exact trine with the Sun, but
for some reason I discard trines as of less importance when establishing
"keys" or focus that give structure to a life.
I already mentioned that Sun/Saturn is well represented in his insecurity
and the difficulties in establishing his career due to the animosity and
the prejudice of megalomaniac critics like Eduard Hanslick who attacked
him without mercy and was responsible for the spread of so many misconceptions
that only in the last decades have been cleared out about the composer.
Pylenor may be part of his piety, his peasant origins, crude manners,
complete awkwardness when dealing with women, and of course his inclination
at old age towards very young girls (these girls are his 5th house Moon
in 24Cap and SG35 in 27Cap)... But of course I like young girls myself...
Pylenor charts his crudeness when he tried to socialize with them, his
incapacity to establish the "age limits" required by acceptable morality.
But it must be said that he was a man of strong religious principles and
he never engaged in any before-marriage physical relationship. He was rejected
by all the women he proposed throughout his life, due to his rude simplicity.
To complete the picture and before attempting to outline the meaning
of the rest, we must consider also:
-Pholus in 25 Scorpio in the 4th (his "Alpine wings" as Hugh has suggested)
is square to the Ascendant/Pylenor.
-Mars in 17 Scorpio conjunct the I.C. in 19 Scorpio, as mentioned by
Hugh. This Mars is very strongly felt in his music.
-The Sun in 11 Virgo applies to a sextile to TF35 in 13 Scorpio and
a square to TL66 in 13 Sagittarius (they are also in contra-parallel)
These last, TF35 and TL66, I feel are the ones more related to the 9th
symphony. I still have to explore this.
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 08:06:10 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] Bruckner's 9th, II-1
Some of you may remember my analysis of Bruckner's 9th Symphony,
written between January and February of 2000. At that time, I examined
the birth and death charts, trying to find significators of this
symphony. Although the analysis was to me interesting and fruitful, I
was left dissatisfied regarding the astrological markers of this
Please refer to my compilation above for details about the symphony,
and a very thorough examination of the "colossal" 1st movement. Months
after that, on 15 December 2000, I wrote:
"... for many years, I related the
apocalyptic and cosmic nature of Bruckner's 9th symphony to Pluto, but
now, it is not Pluto what comes to mind, but TL66, and very strongly,
even though I have not been able to demonstrate it with concrete data
in Bruckner's case. There are parts of the last movement which to me
speak of "the moment of escathological revelation", very similar to a
passage in Mahler's 10th Symphony's adagio (also an unfinished
composition inspired by the imminence of death), called "Purgatorium",
the main quality of it is the "standing still of time", "the Gates of
Death", etc. [ ref. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Centaurs/message/5254 ]
I would like now to explore other dates related to the symphony,
besides Bruckner's birth and death. Details of the composition and
first performance are given in:
"On September 21, 1887, immediately after completing the first
version of his "Eighth", Bruckner began work on the composition of a
9th symphony, the third movement of which, however, he wasn´t
able to complete until seven years later, on November 30, 1894; because
of the long drawn-out rewrite work on the 8th Symphony, compositional
work on the "Ninth" was held up for many years. On May 24, 1895,
Bruckner finally began work on the fourth movement, which he was unable
Composition starts September 21, 1887. I use 12h GTM and the Fagan/Bradley sidereal zodiac:
Sun = 5,00 Virgo
Venus = 5,16 Virgo
Black Moon = 4,53 Pisces
1999 OX3 = 4,34 Virgo
This does not make significant contacts with either birth or death, but
sets a precedent or a reference for the other dates. We can ignore the
4th movement, of which only sketches were left; the symphony was left
unfinished. The the 3rd movement, a monumental, epic adagio that has
always identified the Symphony's end, was completed November 30 1894, 7
lunar Node = 4,59 Pisces
Sun (12h GMT) = 15,00 Scorpio
Venus = 15,02 Scorpio
Vesta = 15,44 SCorpio
Saturn at birth = 15,19 Taurus
The 1st performance of the 3 movements was posthumously on February 11,
1903 in Vienna [ref. above], 9 years after the composer's death. But
this was a version by one of his pupils who re-wrote many parts and
completely distorted Bruckner's original intentions. It was only in
1932, 36 years after Bruckner had died, when the original score was
first performed by Siegmund von Hausegger with the Munich Philarmonic.
Only then was the greatness of this symphony recognized, and it became
evident that it represented the crowning life-achievement of a master
composer at the height of his powers.
This last phrase: "crowning life achievement at the height of his
powers" suggests the meaning of the Sun/Venus conjunction ("crowning")
in opposition to natal Saturn (life achievement). The Sun/Venus
conjunction also represents the mystical nature of the symphony (and of
all of Bruckner's music), an epitome of Bruckner's intense,
He had expressed his desire that the 9th Symphony be dedicated to God.
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 08:21:28 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] Bruckner's 9th, II-2
I will ignore the failed 1903 performance of the spurious version and
concentrate on the 1st "true" semi-private performance in Munich on
April 2, 1932. About the significance of this date, I want to quote the
"Hausegger conducted one of the most
significant concerts in the history of Bruckner's music when, in 1932,
he performed two versions of Bruckner's 9th Symphony with the Munich
Philharmonic. The first, which had been the official version for 30
years, was heavily edited and revised by Ferdinand Lowe, one of
Bruckner's students in Vienna. Like many of Bruckner's students, Lowe
was a Wagnerian who didn't truly understand Bruckner's symphonic
conception. He thus "Wagnerized" Bruckner's 9th Symphony, making it a
far less original and powerful symphonic statement than the untainted
version that the master had left to a library in Vienna at his death.
The second version that Hausegger performed was that original version,
unveiled for performance in an edition by the musicologist, Alfred
Orel. Hausegger's juxtaposition of the two versions of the 9th
reputedly left no one in doubt that the original versions of Bruckner's
symphonies should be performed to the complete exclusion of the
spurious versions drafted by Bruckner's students. It was a momentous
performance that had an enormous impact."
The 2 versions were performed one after the other, so that they could
be compared by the public. It is on this occasion when the conductor,
Siegmund von Hausegger, said of it: <<It is no longer the
touching departure of an individual being from this life, rather it is
a higher synthesis of life and death, full of the mystery of the
eternal spirit.>>. I adopted this as a description of the
astrological meaning of TL66 since I first quoted it in a post of 9
It is no longer the touching departure of an individual being from
this life, rather it is a higher synthesis of life and death, full of
the mystery of the eternal spirit.
TL66 is significantly placed at Bruckner's birth as well as death, but
I didn´t feel at the time that it was enough to say that TL66
represents this symphony, despite my strong feeling in this regard.
From my previous compilation:
natal TL66 = 21,32 Scorpio (sidereal)
natal Sun = 19,12 Leo (applying square 2º20')
death TL66 = 15,46 Sagittarius
natal lunar Node = 15,19 Sagittarius
natal Neptune = 14,37 Sagittarius
death Black Moon 15,25 Pisces
Bruckner died when TL66 and the Black Moon were transiting his natal
Node/Neptune conjunction. This refers to the vastness, the mysticism
and the "colossal" nature of his compositional style in general, and of
the 9th Symphony in particular, that was his last and left unfinished.
Now let's see the date of the performance (2 April 1932). I will use 20h GMT:
Sun = 19,04 Pisces
Uranus at birth = 19,39 Sagittarius
Black Moon = 21,10 Pisces
(note the consistent presence of the Black Moon...)
Uranus = 25,10 Pisces
BU48 (Alastor) = 25,32 Sagittarius
Sun at death = 25,29 Virgo
Pluto = 26,10 Gemini
Chariklo = 23,48 Gemini
Pluto-Chariklo midpoint = 24,59 Gemini
See how clearly Uranian this posthumous date was for Bruckner:
Transiting Uranus was opposing the Sun at death, transiting Sun was
squaring Uranus at birth. The "enormous impact" meant an awakening
(Uranus) to the greatness (Sun) of Bruckner as a composer, and it was
the start of a long process of recovering the original versions of his
symphonies, as opposed to his own and his students' later but inferior
revisions, which (unfortunately in my opinion) are still performed
Pluto-Chariklo opposes BU48/Alastor, with Uranus making the T-cross. Bruckner's death Sun completes the Grand Cross.
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 09:15:15 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] Bruckner's 9th, II-3
Composition starts September 21, 1887. I use 12h GTM and the Fagan/Bradley sidereal zodiac:
Sun = 5,00 Virgo
Venus = 5,16 Virgo
Black Moon = 4,53 Pisces
1999 OX3 = 4,34 Virgo
The the 3rd movement, a monumental, epic adagio that has
always identified the Symphony's end, was completed November 30 1894, 7
lunar Node = 4,59 Pisces
Sun (12h GMT) = 15,00 Scorpio
Venus = 15,02 Scorpio
Vesta = 15,44 Scorpio
Saturn at birth = 15,19 Taurus
Sun and Venus together, in the higher or spiritual sense, refer to a
state of inner calmness, a sense of completion, communion, or
consummation; a very strong, intense intimacy, either with oneself,
with another, or with the divine. If we think of it as a transit,
it refers to a day in which one is particularly tuned to the most
intimate part of oneself, the innermost feelings, those which come from
our "divine self", our spiritual alter ego. This aspect of Venus
was explained by Dane Rudhyar in "The Lunation Cycle",
who referred to the theosophical concept of Manas (the "Spirit-Self" in
Anthroposophy) and to the Platonic "Augoeides". A Christian or
Catholic mystic would simply say "Christ in Me", my husband, my
beloved. Tolkien's Golum would say "my precious". Venus/Sun
refers to "the dearest jewel of the soul", the dearest "other" which is
an extension of me, in whose eyes I see myself.
This is not difficult to imagine in the case of Bruckner, for whom
composition was always a sort of liturgical act. He was 63 when
he started composition of his 9th, and 70 when he wrote the finishing
touches of the 3rd movement. At this age, he had reached maturity
as a composer and as a mystic. Additionally, he wanted to
dedicate his 9th Symphony to God:
<<It had been Bruckner´s
intention to dedicated this symphony to “The Dear Lord God”. He
is said to have confided to his biographer August Göllerich: “You
see, I have already dedicated two symphonies to earthly majesties, poor
King Ludwig as royal patron of the arts [the Seventh], and our
illustrious, dear Emperor [Franz Josef I] as the highest earthly
majesty, and now I am dedicating my last work to the majesty of all
majesties, our dear Lord God and hoping that he will grant me enough
time to complete it.”>>
He wanted to finish the symphony, and knew that his time was
short. He started writing the 4th and last movement on 24 May
1895 [ref. Above], and died one year later (Oct. 11 1896),
leaving it incomplete. However, that day he had the symphony in
his mind and heart, so the astrological signature of that day should
tell us something important about it:
tr. Neptune = 21,44 Taurus
natal TL66 = 21,32 Scorpio
tr. Jupiter = 14,26 Gemini
tr. TL66 = 16,23 Sagittarius
death TL66 = 15,46 Sagittarius
death Black Moon = 15,25 Pisces
Jupiter is adding weight and dimension to the Neptune/TL66
signature. Remember this signature is what connects Bruckner's
birth and death charts:
natal Neptune = 14,37 Sagittarius
natal Node = 15,19 Sagittarius
natal Mercury = 15,51 Virgo
I have written of Jupiter/TL66 several times. The last was with regards to the Second Vatican Council, 29 July 2003:
<<... we are seeing a religious
aspect of TL66 inspired by "the End of Time" sociological
thinking. This is especially the case if we see it from the
perspective of "old" John XXIII, who criticized the pessimism of the
"prophets of doom" inside the Church and at the opening speech clearly
sided --to the happy surprise of many participants-- with the
progressives and reformists. <<Recall my suggestion for
naming TL66 "Typhon". I hadn't thought before of the association
this has with "ruach", the "strong wind" that is the manifestation of
"the spirit of God" in the Old Testament, and later, of Pentecost:
<<"... And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent
rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting..."
I have always felt very strongly that Bruckner's 9th Symphony, in
particular the last (3rd, not the 4th which was never completed)
movement is apocalyptic. The end of this movement is infrequent
in an adagio, and to me, has always described a conflagration, a
frightening trombones crescendo the climax of which could be described
as a typhon, something which I always associated in my imagination with
Armageddon since I first heard this Symphony when I was 15 years
old. This is the section of the Symphony that contains the
"moments of escathological revelation", including passages of deep
Curiously, this is best described by the day in which he started
writing the 4th and last movement (in combination with the death and
birth charts), which he never finished and which is not part of the
Symphony that I and countless others love with awe-inspiring admiration.
At 12h GMT that day (May 24 1895), the Sun and the Moon were in
conjunction. Actually, the New Moon occurred at 12h46m in 9,47
Taurus, in opposition with his natal Chariklo in 9,40 Scorpio. I
am not sure what this means... any ideas?
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 08:23:03 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] Celibidache and Bruckner: TL66
Sergiu Celibidache was
born in Roman, Rumania on July 11,1912. (NOTE: Rumania adopted the
Gregorian Calendar in 1919. The "old style" original date is June 28: http://www.gerhard-greiner.de/bioeng.htm )
TL66 = 18,26 Cap r
Sun = 18,47 Can (12h GMT)
Venus = 20,16 Can
has always been a special relationship between Celibidache and
Bruckner, the former being said to have understood the latter like
nobody else. "To him, time is different than it is to other composers.
To a normal man, time is what comes after the beginning. To Bruckner,
time is what comes after the end. All his apotheotical finals, the hope
for another world, the hope of being saved, of being again baptised in
light, it exists nowhere else in the same manner"--these were
Celibidache's own words when asked about Bruckner.
more impressive--it stands as a kind of summation of his early
style--is a 1971 performance of Bruckner's Seventh Symphony on Arkadia.
This is one of the best performances of Bruckner I've ever heard, and a
particularly daring one since Celibidache deliberately slows down a
work that's so slow to begin with that it's on the edge of lapsing into
a coma. But he somehow holds together the interminably long legato
lines that are gravely oscillating between Bruckner's two available
moods of vague exaltation and gloomy grandeur, gathering them into an
atmosphere of impending doom. The enormously prolonged crescendo that
climaxes the adagio movement is built into such a towering cataclysm
that it's like watching God's own thunderstorm rise over the horizon
and bear straight down on you. This is the sort of apocalyptic
performance that makes you picture the conductor and orchestra being
carried off on stretchers after the last curtain call.
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 14:11:16 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] Celibidache and Bruckner: TL66, 2
The correct date for Celibidache's death is August 14, 1996. This
date is given, among other sources, in the yearbook of the Munich
Philharmonic Orchestra. He died in a clinic near Neuville-sur-Essone in
France, the place where he was buried on August 16, 1996
night Sergiu Celibidache, chief conductor of the Muenchener
Philharmoniker since 1979 died in Paris, aged 84. He will be buried in
I use as reference 22h GMT. For the birth I use 12h GMT. Positions are in the sidereal zodiac in order to make the comparisons:
Celi_birth TL66 = 24Sa55 r
Celi_birth Sun = 25Ge16
Celi_death Deucalion = 25Vi02
Bruckner_death Sun = 25Vi29
Celi_death Sun = 27Ca40
Celi_death TD10 = 28Cp07 r
Celi_birth Quaoar = 27Ca43
Bruckner_death Ixion = 27Ca30
Bruckner_birth Apogee = 27Cp53
Celi_birth CR46 = 19Aq29 r
Bruckner_birth Sun = 19Le12
In terms of Occam's Razor, the primary relationships between Celibidache and Bruckner are, in order of priority:
1-) Bruckner Sun / Celi CR46 (birth)
2-) Bruckner Sun / Celi Deucalion (death)
3-) Celi death Sun-TD10 / Bruckner death Ixion (or Celi death Sun-TD10 / Bruckner birth Apogee)
4-) Celi birth Sun-TL66 / Bruckner death Sun
As conclusion, one
can say: Celibidache's special sensitivity to TL66 brings forth the
escathological, apocalyptical nature of Bruckner's music, but this
seems to be more an aspect of Celibidache himself. In terms of
Bruckner, the relationship between the two is clearly centered on
Deucalion (death) and CR46 (birth). But Bruckner's spiritual legacy
(Bruckner's death Sun, his spiritual presence and inmortality) is
clearly triggering in a specially critical, conflicting, excentric way
(the square) Celibidache's Sun/TL66 axis of destiny.
I just discovered Celibidache's Bruckner recordings with the Munich
Philarmonic a couple of months ago. Perhaps the death Bruckner Sun
squaring the birth Celi's Sun-TL66 axis signifies the way in which
Celibidache is able to produce in my soul a "standstill of time" so
powerful and beautiful that it takes me away to another dimension of
being, in a way that no other conductor has done before (and I have
been listening to recordings of Bruckner since I was 15).
As you can confirm in the multiple commentaries on him found in the
Web, Celibidache was justly famous for being able to do this when
interpreting Bruckner's music, of which he often said was "God's
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:16:21 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] Georg Tintner and Bruckner
Another conductor who has come to my attention these past months is Georg Tintner
(1917-1999), especially when one considers the way he died: at age 82,
when almost suddenly in the lapse of less than 2 years he passed from
being practically unknown to be considered "one of the greatest living
Bruckner conductors", he threw himself from the balcony of his
11th-storey apartment in Halifax, Nova Scotia, terminating that way his
struggle with cancer after he realized he could no longer perform. He
died the next day, October 2, 1999, apparently during the night:
October 3, 1999, Nova Scotia and the whole world woke up to the
terrible news that Georg Tintner, Mister T. to us at Symphony Nova
Scotia, had died the previous night in Halifax."
Sun = 14,44 Virgo (sidereal, Oct 3 1999 3h GMT used as reference)
TL66 = 14,41 Aries r
Varuna = 14,56 Gemini
This event shocked the musical world ( and
the city of Nova Scotia, I presume) and to many (as for me as well) it
was the last courageous act of a man who struggled against ignominy all
Less than 2 years later, his daughter, Hephzibah Tintner, died of throat cancer at the age of 30, on June 21, 2001:
career as a ballerina, actor and opera director took her to the
artistic capitals of the world, but she was just as at home here in
Sydney where she came to start a new life. On 26 April 2000 she was
diagnosed with cancer. After a journey through the hospitals and
treatments available in this State, she died on 21 June 2001 at the age
of 30 years. She was a fit, young vegetarian non-smoker, let alone a
hugely talented, gifted and lovely human being."
NOTE: she was born in 1970, but I could not find her birth date.
daughter's death Venus = 20,27 Aries (approx.)
Bruckner's death Venus = 20,31 Lib
Tintner's birth Mars = 19,28 Aries (approx.)
Keep in mind that
Tintner rose to world-wide recognition and praise (albeit very late
--too late-- in his life) thanks to his recordings of Bruckner's
symphonies for the Naxos label. Immediatly it was recognized that he
was a consecrated Brucknerian, yet, very few had heard of him:
This was written in 1999:
Tintner's story, a tale of undervalued talent and late-flowering
success, is in its way emblematic of this century now almost drawn to
its close. Though his career was crowned by the triumph of the
symphonic cycle of his beloved Bruckner, recently recorded on the
budget Naxos label, for years before that turning-point his reputation
had remained in the shadows cast by other names, despite a
and from http://www.geocities.com/immortalbruckner/tintner.html
Tintner had a special affinity with Bruckner and conducted his works on
five continents. In his last years, he recorded Bruckner's complete
eleven symphonies for Naxos, which brought him a worldwide reputation
as a Brucknerian. When he had a conversation with the reviewer Richard
Whitehouse, he said, 'The worse our age becomes, the more we need music
that consoles: music that is full of repose, and is restful in itself.
There is space for Bruckner and for Mahler, but for the opposite
reasons. Mahler was the prophet of Angst and horror, whereas Bruckner
transcends this condition.' "
and this: http://www.scena.org/lsm/sm5-7/tintner-en.htm
the budget record label Naxos began releasing Tintner's recent Bruckner
recordings, international critical acclaim has been overwhelming and
sales have soared. His interpretations (which have been compared with
the best in recording history) and his daring scholarly approach to
different Bruckner editions are currently changing the way this
composer's work will be performed. Still, as Norman Lebrecht, author of
The Maestro Myth and critic for the London Daily Telegraph explains,
'Tintner was one of those all-too-common victims of 20th-century
prejudice, an artist who had to attain a venerable age before anyone
was prepared to acknowledge his unarguable gifts.'
Bruckner's birth Sun = 19,12 Leo
Bruckner's death Pluto = 20,18 Tau r
Tintner's death CY118 = 20,31 Leo
Tintner's death CZ118 = 21,09 Leo
Transiting CY118 conjunct Bruckner's birth Sun: 24 Oct 1998, 11 Feb 1999, 22 August 1999
Transiting CZ118 conjunct Bruckner's birth Sun: 20 Oct 1997, 10 Feb 1998, 29 August 1998, 30 Jun 1999
are seeing here CY118 and CZ118 acting as twins (as they did on Sep 11
2001). These transits also correspond *exactly* to the EMI release of
Celibidache's live recordings of Bruckner's symphonies 3-9, Mass No.3
and Te Deum, in September 1998. This release was of paramount
importance because Celibidache throughout his life refused
categorically to record his performances in the studio for the record
labels. Before the EMI release in the Fall of 1998, there were only
unofficial versions of live recordings of low sound quality. This was
the first time music lovers and scholars could listen to Celibidache's
Brucknerian spiritual legacy in recordings of high sound quality. It
required a special approval from Celibidache's son, who decided for
publication against his eccentric father wishes.
One can see the death/life paradoxes of these objects: "resurrecting"
or renewing the interest in, and confirming the unconditional
admiration and immortality of Bruckner's genius, "God's greatest gift
to mankind", but this required death. Life and death together.
Precisely what Bruckner's music is about.
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 04:17:23 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] Celibidache and Bruckner: TL66, 3
I found a birth time for Celibidache in the database of Peter Niehenke: 1:30 p.m.
The source not given, just the following reference:
DS : Miscellaneous data collections
2193 : Datensammlung: Gracia Bordoni, Milano -F.Snethlage-
I regret the absurd habit of astrologers of citing other astrologers as source. This leaves the source unknown and undocumented.
Rumania in 1912 was 1h44m24s ahead of Greenwich, so the data is:
July 11, 1912
11h45m36 GMT (13h30m meridian of Bucarest)
46N55 / 26E56 (Roman, Rumania)
Since I used 12h GMT the position of the Sun is practically the same. For the Moon (sidereal):
Moon = 12,31 Tau
Jupiter = 12,46 Sco r
Ixion = 12,57 Leo
Varuna = 13,07 Aqu r
CZ118 = 23,09 Gem
Node = 23,26 Pis r
TL66 = 24,55 Sag r
Sun = 25,15 Gem
Orcus = 26,25 Pis
Venus = 26,44 Gem
Celibidache was a practicing Zen Buddist. This may have to do with
TL66, but I feel it is more related in this case to Moon/Ixion/Varuna,
i.e., to a way of living (Moon) rather than a transcendental vision
(Sun/TL66). As for the negative personal side of his personality,
consider the following statement he once made:
[ref.: http://www.emiclassics.com/newreleases/oct98/celi/press.html ]
"The Bruckner tradition?
That's what I call cultural murder! Bruckner conductors? They commit
cultural murder. There are some so-called Bruckner conductors who have
never played a Bruckner symphony! These camel-drivers have not
understood a word of Bruckner. Sometimes I ask myself if Bruckner has
ever been performed at all."
This may be Moon/Ixion/Varuna in style or form (Moon), but the message
is solar: it refers to the individuality of Bruckner, of other
conductors, and of himself, and behind all that is the idea of
something spiritual or intangible that is utterly beyond routine and