Message: 7
   Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 18:49:35 -0600
   From: jar@xxxxxxx.xx.xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx)
Subject: Sade and Casanova

Donatien Alphonse Francois, Marquis de Sade, seems as a good candidate for centaur research. He was an outcast in all respects, and his writings are still officially banned by the French courts. Because of his scandalous writings and sexual practices, he spent a lot of his life in jail. His works were widely read, mostly underground, and today he is a symbol of... well, you already know all this.

He was born June 2, 1740, in Paris. At 12 GMT:

Sun = 12,06 Gemini
Pholus = 16,26 Sagittarius
Jupiter = 17,12 Gemini
Chiron = 18,11 Gemini

--his Moon is in 11 Virgo at 12 GMT, so it is closing the grand cross.

[snip]

Giovanni Giacomo Casanova de Seingalt <<ecclesiastic, writer, soldier, spy, and diplomatist, chiefly remembered as the prince of Italian adventures and as the man who made the name Casanova synonymous with "libertine">> was the son of an actor, who <<was expelled as a young man from the seminary of St. Cyprian for scandalous conduct and launched on a colorful, dissolute career.>> (Britannica)

He was born April 2, 1725, in Venice:

Sun = 12,40 Aries
Pholus = 14,01 Libra r.
QM107 = 15,38 Capricorn

The Sun/Pholus close opposition stands out in both, making Pholus "speak". What do you think Pholus is saying?

/Juan

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Message: 8
   Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 07:23:03 -0600
   From: jar@xxxxxxx.xx.xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx)
Subject: Re: Sade and Casanova
 

there's another image that always comes to me when thinking in this context of Pholus, which I have never mentioned, and that is "drunkenness", perhaps not in the Neptunian way, which can be seen as going in circles and living in emptiness or escapism, but more as "unbridled celebration", to use Jonathan's words. The "celebration" seems more appropriate in Casanova's case, but one can think in the shadow aspect of it, taking away Casanova's literary exaggerations or adornments: the pain that he is inflicting on others with his licentiousness. This is what I meant with Pholus's games being very different to child's play.

/Juan

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Message: 13
   Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 14:20:49 -0600
   From: jar@xxxxxxx.xx.xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx)
Subject: Re: Sade and Casanova
 

In the case of Sade, I was doubting the "celebrating" aspect, especially since he was so ostracized and vituperated during his life. I don't know enough about him, but I imagine the pain he was in. Probably Pholus "unbridled" this pain, these repressed impulses. Or, from a different perspective, I can think of "the celebration of pain" (=pleasure), which is what sado-masochism is about? There is probably a sublimation of repressed anger, which, transformed, appears as all those sexual fantasies. The Britannica says that <<Sade overcame his boredom and anger in prison by writing sexually graphic novels and plays... His letters to his lawyer as well as to his wife combine incisive wit with an implacable spirit of revolt>>" It also says that <<Sade lived out many examples of the sexual compulsion on which his works centered>>.

Maybe it can be related to the "Luciferic" qualities, the passion, the redness, the blood... I would assume that it also shows the opposite, like in fairy tales: that is, fairy, translucent and ethereal wings. But I wouldn't reduce Pholus to that. My feeling is that this is only one way in which it manifests, according to individual contexts. Perhaps the being "luciferic" embraces more. It is also "human waste", i.e., fragmented and somber, marginal existence and people. 

I perceive a "smallness" in Nessus, a vulnerability, so I would agree with the shyness. It is also very nasty, which may be seen as part of the guile. There is something that is damaged, something that was abused, but also a very intense delicacy, a very subtle sensibility, as that which comes as the result of a lot of pain, after it goes. They both seem very dualistic --or rather bi-polar, having the sides simultaneously... or maybe all planets are.

/Juan

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Message: 4
   Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 10:54:35 -0600
   From: jar@expreso.co.cr (Juan Ant. Revilla)
Subject: Re: Unbridled
 

Perhaps "unbridled" can be seen also as "untamed", in the sense of culture and moral conditioning, that is, ostracized, marginal, outcast, unstable, dangerous, not like Uranus, but, in the case of Pholus at least, as a stigma, a life that cannot be whole, that is "condemned", wasted, etc.

Casanova: Extreme extroversion and moral irresponsibility is a sign of extreme fear and introversion inside, the "not wanting to look". Hugh Smiley's description of Pholus as "touching without seeing" is a very good description that applies here. Like the difference between an eagle and a vulture, or between an owl and a bat.

What do George Bush and Casanova or Sade (Sun opp. Pholus) have in common? Or Netanyahu and John Lennon (Sun square Pholus)? What is the difference between them and Joan Baez (Sun conjunct Pholus)?

If someone can answer this in the light of Pholus, then I may have the understanding necessary to include it in my daily practice with clients. Maybe that day is not too far.

Someone who never faces his or her own shadow, tries to avoid it by all means, and builds a personality that is immune to pain and to "density", always trying to do something else external that keeps the mind and feelings busy. When this external substitution disappears, the shadow swallows the person, and death ensues.

Particularly in Pholus, from the negative perspective, I perceive something wasted, dark, scattered, like the moth going after the artificial light and flying in circles until it dies. It is not easy to explain abstractly images and feelings, but I would say that there is something in Pholus that is artificial, like, for example, cyber-life. It has good things, but it also has its very dark aspects, mainly because it often becomes a substitute of the real thing.

I can see a similar principle acting, albeit differently, in Nessus, and apparently more "abyssal", in 1995GO. Presumably, SN55 would be even more of this. Perhaps they are more "luciferian", heretic, dissident, conscript, etc, because their orbits are very similar, very cometary, while the others, with Chiron in the middle, are milder in this respect, less "crucified". Perhaps the rounder ones (i.e., rounding up the orbits of 2 main planets), make jumps, or "captures" as Hugh said, maybe like alien abductors, while the "wild ones", the comets... are life-sweepers, astral tempests, luciferic fights, or flights...

Pholus is red (the passion) and blind (the fool, the trickster), but it can also be "ethereal" and translucent. like the wings of a butterfly. Granted, the negative aspect can be seen more easily...

/Juan

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Message: 4
   Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 13:26:07 -0600
   From: jar@xxxxxxx.xx.xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx)
Subject: centaurean games

the following is from the "Encyclopedia of Psychology", Eysenck, Arnold & Meili, eds. (1972). The article is sadomasochism:

"... have drawn attention to the *play* aspect of this behavior... behavior resembles a game with specific rules and parts (e.g. master and slave) which are completely artificial (the roles can be adopted or abandoned at any time; there is no personal commitment and the *punishment* is administered without emotional involvement); the artificial aspect of the *role playing* always remains conscious. 'The decisive factor is the fiction of complete submission or domination; the administration or suffering of physical pain is not an essential feature.'"

/Juan

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Message: 11
   Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 19:21:35 -0600
   From: jar@xxxxxxx.xx.xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx)
Subject: Re: centaurean games

Sade was bron June 2, 1740, and died December 2, 1814, at the time of the return of 1995GO:

natal 1995GO = 26,41 Cancer
death 1995GO = 28,07 Cancer Rx.

I think it was Andre Barbault from whom I read a long time ago that Sade's main signature could be seen in the following:

natal Venus = 27,04 Cancer
natal Mars = 24,27 Aries
natal Saturn = 22,03 Cancer

That is, Venus conjunct Saturn with Mars squaring the midpoint in 24,31 Cancer. Very tight! And it is illustrative of the role of the Centaurs in astrology seeing how the presence of 1995GO (conjunct Venus, orb=0,26) brings the matter to clear focus. When he died, he also had Nessus in 23,22 Aries and 1994TA in 23,13 Cancer.

It is also worth mentioning that when he died

Sun = 8,42 Sag
TL66 = 10,50 Sag.
Venus = 2,57 Sag
Uranus = 2,06 Sag

and using the data of Sacher-Masoch that Zane has just given us as radical:

Sacher-Masoch TL66 = 17,56 Sag
Sun at death = 17,51 Pisces
Sade natal Pholus = 17,47 Sag
Sade Neptune at death = 17,28 Sag

When Sade died, 1996TL66 was about 1 degree from the exact conjunction with the natal Sun.

/Juan

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Message: 17
   Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 16:04:21 -0600
   From: Juan Antonio Revilla <jar@expreso.co.cr>
Subject: Re: Sade and Casanova

I believe that both Sade and Casanova are failures as persons, because, logically, they are not Pholus only. But I can see Pholus behind them, laughing at society and dancing in celebration of life. I think I have incorporated Jonathan's ideas --now that I have it in opposition for the second time, by seeing Pholus as the ritual dancing and feasting of primitive societies, the "masks" and the carnivals, degenerated often perhaps, but nevertheless primordial for the restoration of wholeness, like simple dancing is, or like the 50 year old I once mentioned from an Argentinian movie, dancing disco on the roof of his house, and madly in love with his wife, like a teenager. Pholus is not superficial but loose, and it is playing tricks on us so that, as Dorothy said, we can recognize how foolish we all are in our conditionings, enabling us to become "fools", "poors of spirit", restoring to us the sense of the sacredness of life.

/Juan

 


 
 
 
 
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