Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:07:39 -0600
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] Saddam as Hitler ?

>Could someone explain to me how Saddam Hussein can be compared to Hitler?

1-) He invades and occupies other countries with clearly evident imperial purposes.
2-) He unilaterally breaks treaties, disregards international law, and steps upon the will of the council of nations.
3-) He has expressed his commitment to make his nation the hegemonical hyper-power
4-) He relies on the advantage of superior military strength and relentless "blitzkrieg" tactics.
5-) He deliberately targets civilian installations and doesn't care how many civilians he kills.
6-) He is in clear violation of at least 11 articles of the Geneva Convention.
7-) He mounts a propaganda based on lies, faked documents, and religious fundamentalism.
8-) He displays a violent form of racism in the very little value he gives to Arab lives.
9-) He has passed laws that curtail individual rights in his own country
10-) His family has documented historical connections with the Nazi regime
11-) He gained legitimacy by exploiting the fear, the messianic delusions and the war-like tendency of his people.
12-), 13-), 14-)...

Juan

_____________________________________________
_____________________________________________

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:21:51 -0600
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] Saddam as Hitler ?

>But such a description fits certain other people as well. I could not help but notice.

This is actually an accurate description of George W. Bush point by point. One can easily document how all this applies to him, since he has a stronger connection to Hitler than Hussein. I will put these points in a new portal to my site soon. Point 12 would separate Bush from Hussein and bring him closer to Hitler:

12-) His crimes against humanity and his military expansionism have a strong impact on the whole world.

You will find lots and lots of data and references to the Bush-Hitler connection here:

      http://falloutshelternews.com/BushHitlerLinks.html

Juan

_____________________________________________
_____________________________________________

Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 02:17:26 -0600
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] Saddam as Hitler?

Bush has dealt with his political enemies, the Taliban and the Baathist regime of Iraq, using weaponry of mass destruction and murder much more sophisticated and effective than gassing, weaponry --like the cluster bombs-- considered ethically unacceptable by the rest of the world.

Like Hitler, he displays a heavily ideological racist self-righteousness to justify this, his so-called "war against terrorism". There are also many indications of the government's involvement in the events of Sep 11th (see the reference I gave in my last post).

And don't forget the destruction of sanitary infrastructure and the sanctions initiated by his father, which according to official UNICEF reports are directly responsible for the death of about 1 million Iraquis, half of them children.

He is indeed a very weak person, but like Hitler, we can take him as personification of those around him that share or feed his vision. When I speak of him, I have in mind those people. Mass slaughter (what else is war?) may not be his (their) goal, but he has been using it as a means to an end. Of course, in this he is no different from other murderous hypocrites such as Putin, who has slaughtered the Chechenian population.

His enemies have to be eliminated, leaving only those that will not oppose him and that will be happy to see an end to the destruction he perpetrates. He attempted this in Afghanistan without success, and for which he targeted and killed about 3500 civilians and a larger undetermined number of combatants, 650 of which are maintained in a limbo of lawlessness subject only to his will, in defiance of the Geneva Conventions and despite the protest of the international community. And he is now trying to do this same thing in Iraq.

Whether Hitler or Hussein were "bad" depends on who says it, since for those who knew him closely Hitler was not a bad person, as I am sure Bush isn't either. Maybe he was "evil", if we are going to make a distinction of terms. Hitler loved dogs and liked to play with his generals' children. And until the end, he kept loyalty to Eva Braun and married her in gratitude.

On the other hand, Hitler didn't have the sophisticated electronic/satellite equipment for murder that Bush has at his disposal, and with which the leader of the Chechen resistance was killed in 1996 as a courtesy of the CIA to the Russians. Bush is not a bad person, he has a family, a loving wife, a little dog that he loves... but he doesn't hesitate to order the pulverization of a building where he suspects Hussein might be, with the openly declared purpose of murdering him and his sons, and without any consideration for the women and children that he has mutilated and killed in the process.

Juan

_____________________________________________
_____________________________________________

Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 15:09:39 -0600
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] Saddam as Hitler?

There are many differences between Bush and Hitler (such as the personality cult you mention). It would be nonsense to pretend that they are copies of each other. Times are now different than they were in the 1930's in Germany, but for the moment I am interested in a more global, less American perspective from which the nazism of the Bush administration is strong and obvious.

A clear manifestation of nazism is the separation of people into different categories of worth, putting your own above all the others. This administration has gone to extremes in this respect. You can see an example in the refusal to be part of the International Court in The Hague, or  to simply abide by International Law or the principles of the Geneva Conventions. You can see it also in the treatment the U.S. has given to the civil population of Iraq for more than 11 years, not to mention the bombing of civilians in this war and not long ago in Afghanistan.

The level of violence and intimidation shown by this administration has no limits, nor has limits the racist separation it makes between American citizens and the rest of the world, especially those that are poor or "different", which are blamed guilty of terrorism even without proof, or through faked proofs. This is sheer nazism.

Considering that it is the U.S. Congress that is backing and financing Bush, and that the majority of Americans are now backing "their soldiers", I think the reality is that you are there already. The intimidation has been working on many levels, mainly economical, coming from the powerful corporations that rule the U.S. and control the Press.

I have never been interested in looking at the future, but also think that astrology was not necessary to foresee what was going to happen right from the time of the elections. Those elections were a dark moment in the history of the U.S, and a sign of what was to come.

During the time of the elections, I had seen something that maybe I have pointed out before. I don't remember. You can read it at: http://www.expreso.co.cr/centaurs/posts/mundane/lincoln.html (scroll down to the 10 Dec 2000 post)

I also "saw" imaginatively (or spiritually?) something when I was writing my "Testing the chart of Islam" by the end of 2001 that made the usual people in this forum very angry. I said that the "war against terrorism" was not justice but hypocrisy, and also said that "Presidents and whole nations are now adoring The Beast.". As I had to explain then, I didn't mean to say that the U.S. was "the Beast", despite the many who think that way, my explanation was:

<<I don't think the US as a nation "is" the Beast, and never wrote that, but I definitely think that George W. Bush --for example-- is being controlled by the Beast. That's why I used the metaphor "adore".>>
 [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Centaurs/message/9379]

This isn't astrological, but it is apocalyptic or "prophetic" enough. Astrologically, I think this aspect can be related to objects like TL66 and CY118, which I have shown are very significant in the present conflict.

Today, that image of "the Beast" has taken other forms, but it is stronger than before.

I prefer to put Astrology aside in this. I think the future will get worse, I think Bush and his associates are idiots who have unleashed something very evil that is a disgrace for humanity. I think they are terrorists and murderers worse than Hussein and Bin Laden, a thought for which, I am sure, many in this forum will think I am the idiot and the etc. etc ..., but which fortunately is shared and voiced by many around the world.

*** but *** judging from what I perceive is the awareness that so many people world-wide have of this; the good that this is bringing in uniting the world through a common consciousness to honor life and justice is something wonderful that has never happened in human history. It always happens that something very evil brings --given some time-- something else very good and wonderful in response to it.

Juan

_____________________________________________
_____________________________________________

Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 18:00:11 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] Bush and Hitler

Scott Ritter, long time weapons inspector in Iraq and once the Government's conservative darling, is now one of the strongest opponents of President Bush's policy towards that country. He thinks that this is not a war about oil, but a war about or between ideologies:

<<This is a war that is being pushed by the Bush administration and Neo-conservative ideologies who populate the senior most decision making hierarchies of the Bush administration...>>

<<this is being driven by ideology, this is being driven by, again, a national security vision set for by the Bush administration of global domination, of American empirical hegemony over the world,  unilateral application of power. That's what is driving this war -- oil will exploit it. That's my personal opinion and I'm willing to be wrong on this one.  On the issue of the status of democracy I'm very concerned. Extremely concerned of what is happening in the United States of America. I am very concerned that the events of September 11th are some day going to be seen by historians as doing to American democracy what the burning of the Reichstag did to German democracy in the 1930's. That the Bush administration is exploiting the fear and ignorance of the American people to launch a frontal assault on the constitution of the United States of America, to assault individual civil liberties, and this is not hypothesis, this is reality. Homeland Security, the Patriot Act, the Enhancement to the Patriot Act, the fact that we can arrest an American citizen and call him a non-combatant and hold him without legal representation. That doesn't happen in the United States of America, but it is happening right now. And it's going to get worse.>>
[ ref. http://alberta.indymedia.org/news/2003/03/6635.php ]

The present U.S. government fascist attitude to the Arab world, violation of international law and the Geneva Conventions, and ignoring the UN, is an imitation of the Israeli attitude. There has always been a strong complicity between the 2 nations, the difference now is that the U.S. is doing this in the open instead of covertly. This complicity is shown astrologically, for example, in the following aspect:

      U.S. "War" Boyd Mercury = 18,35 Cancer (sidereal)
      Israel (1948) Pluto = 18,38 Cancer

I suggest that this aspect shows the very extensive economic, military, diplomatic, and ideological "shielding" the U.S. provides to Israel, and is a clue to understand the religious and ideological "marriage" between Zionism and the Bush administration, i.e., the confrontation between Judeo-Christian fundamentalism and Islamic fundamentalism, which is so evident in the rhetorics of the present "war against terrorism". I suggest the reason is the nature of the Boyd chart and its strong link to G.W. Bush, that I explained before and you can examined in my "Notes on the U.S. Boyd chart" in my site.

The "Declaration of causes and necessity to take up arms" behind the Boyd chart is often quoted by the right-wing extremist movements as a justification to their right to arm themselves, and is the rhetorical model of Bush's messianic war madness after the 9/11 attack.

Some examples of how this Mercury-Pluto aspect manifests:

The first time the U.S. used its veto power in the U.N. Security Council was March 17, 1970, during the Nixon administration, over a resolution regarding the situation in Southern Rhodesia (Zimbabwe). The second veto came 2 years later, September 10, 1972, and it involved a condemnation of Israel for its violation of the 1967 cease fire resolution. Since then there have been 90 vetos at the Security Council, 73 of which were of the U.S. Of these, 38 (a little more than half) were Security Council draft resolutions condemning Israel or ordering it to stop its abusive actions against Palestinians.

Since 1948 The U.N. Securituy Council and the United Nations General Assembly have been able to pass 66 resolutions involving Israel, all of which were ignored or violated. The shield of U.S. vetos has made it impossible to take any action against Israel for those violations. Compare this with the words of George Bush to the U.N. General Assembly on 12 September 2002: <<Are Security Council Resolutions to be honored and enforced, or cast aside without consequence? Will the United Nations serve the purpose of its founding, or will it be irrelevant?... We want the resolutions of the world's most important multilateral body to be enforced.>>

The Mercury/Pluto aspect is evident also in the extensive and powerful Israel's lobby in the U.S. This aspect probably represents Israel's American "thinktank". One examination of G.W. Bush's and the Pentagon's cabinet (the part dealing with foreign relations and national security) shows that the key positions are occupied by Jews with an open and aggressive anti-Arab and pro-Israeli background. (I have an annotated list of 34 of them that will send to you if asked).

One aspect of the complicity between the 2 nations that is still covert is Israel's nuclear capability. There is no doubt that Israel is one of the world's largest nuclear powers, and has been for a long time in violation of U.S. nuclear non-proliferation requirements. According to the USAF Counterproliferation Center, in 1997, Israel had more than 400 (four hundred) deliverable nuclear and thermonuclear warheads. How many does it have in 2003?

Now we may be able to understand the following:

      U.S. "War" Boyd Mercury = 18,35 Cancer (sidereal)
      Israel (1948) Pluto = 18,38 Cancer
      Islam Varuna = 18,42 Cancer
      Bin Laden's Fatwa Chariklo = 18,14 Cancer
      tr. AW197 = 18,07 Cancer rx.
      Mars Kimgdom of Iraq = 18,59 Cancer (the Iraqi nation as opposed to the Baath regime)
      tr. Neptune right now = 18,10 Capricorn

also transiting Hylonome, Asbolus, TL66...

The entity called "Islam" incarnates all this:

      Sun of Islam: 19,52 Cancer

... but, because of the orb, "not quite", or rather, perhaps, "not yet"...

Juan

_____________________________________________
_____________________________________________

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 12:42:27 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] the Bushes and Hitler

I need to retake here the large-scale genocide of the Iraqi population perpetrated by the U.S. and the U.S.-manipulated United Nations since the 1991 Gulf War. The bombing of infrastructure in 1991 together with UN sanctions is directly responsible for the death of more than 1 million Iraqis already, and the continuous death of at least 4500 children under the age of 5 per month.

You can read what I wrote before on this here:

      http://www.expreso.co.cr/centaurs/posts/mundane/iraq.html

The reason for these deaths is not Saddam Hussein, but the deliberate destruction of the water supply treatment capability by the 1991 bombing and afterwards by UN sanctions.  This effect was very well known by the U.S. Government from the start, according to the declassified Pentagon report entitled "Iraq water treatment vulnerabilities", issued January 18, 1991. You can read the full report here:

      http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/declassdocs/dia/19950901/950901_511rept_91.html

Using the date of the Pentagon report and noon GMT:

Moon nation of Iraq = 25,11 Pisces (sidereal)
North Node nation of Iraq= 25,21 Virgo
TL66 Pentagon report = 25,13 Pisces (this was 2 days after "Desert Storm")

natal TL66 of George Bush, father = 3,08 Capricorn
Sun Pentagon report = 3,17 Capricorn
Saturn Pentagon report = 3,07 Capricorn
Lunar Node Pentagon report = 3,25 Capricorn

In other words, the report is a glorification of George Bush's father TL66! (Jun 12, 1924, 11:38:00 edt).

It says a lot about the United Nations to note that these sanctions constitute a form of terrorism and are a direct violation of the Geneva Conventions. It is not a surprise, either, that to deal with the humanitarian crisis as a result of this war, the UN Security Council decided to continue SELLING its humanitarian aid to Iraq:

TL66 United Nations = 19,20 Capricorn (from the data by Roy Mackinn)
Sun of Islam = 19,52 Cancer
Mars Iraqi nation = 18,59 Cancer
Neptune Iraqi nation = 20,27 Cancer
TL66 right now = 20,25 Aries

Already in 2001 Denis Halliday, former UN Humanitarian Coordinator, described the situation with the words: <<There can be no justification for the death and malnutrition for which sanctions are responsible. We are in the process of destroying an entire society. It is as simple and terrifying as that.>>

ref. http://www.frictionmagazine.com/politik/current_events/sanctions.asp

Denis Halliday was appointed in August, 1997, but because of clashes with his American superiors in New York about the humanitarian aid to Iraq, resigned in July, 1998, quitting his work as Assistant Secretary-General in September 1998, after working for the United Nations for 38 years.

<<His successor, Hans von Sponeck, also resigned on February 13 of this year [2000], asking, "How long should the civilian population of Iraq be exposed to such punishment for something they have never done?. Two days later, Jutta Burghardt, head of the World Food Programme in Iraq, also resigned, saying privately that what was being done to the people of Iraq was intolerable.>>

ref. http://www.zmag.org/edwinthalliday.htm

here are some examples of Denis Halliday's opinions, in an interview held Dec 10, 1998

[begin quote]
Jeremy Rose: Our foreign minister [Don McKinnon] and, I believe, various US officials have claimed that the Iraqi regime simply don't care about their own citizens, what's your response to that in light of what, you've just told me?
Denis Halliday: That's absolute garbage, the fact is that before Saddam Hussein got himself into trouble in Iran, and then of course in Kuwait, they had invested massively in civilian infrastructure. Health care clinics, rural clinics, education, 10,000 schools scattered throughout the country, an educational and healthcare system which was the envy of all its Arab neighbours. Iraq had a very widespread food distribution system of its own before we got involved. This was designed for the widows and families of Iran war. Don't forget there was something like one million men killed during that war. So I mean there is no sign that is correct.
Now we all focus on a number of atrocities and nasty things that went on. But the policy of the government was certainly to take care of its people and take care of its children. It's a country that is dedicated to its kids. Baghdad even today is full of green spaces, not as green as they used to be maybe, and children's playgrounds with Mickey Mouse. You know it's that sort of society. It's a very Islamic family place. And the Islamic family is alive and well.
[end quote]

and he explains here why he resigned [ref. same as above]:

[begin quote]
Jeremy Rose: What prompted your resignation?
Denis Halliday: I found myself, as the most visible UN person in the country as head of the humanitarian programme. [Richard] Butler [executive chair of UNSCOM] just comes in and out for a couple of days, he's gone, he's not a presence there. Then to be identified with a United Nations that is both maintaining a sanctions programme, and which kills and maims people through chronic malnutrition on the one hand, and continues this programme knowingly. Because, that has got to be one's conclusion, is that the member states of the Security Council simply don't care.
And they know damn well what the price is and it's not justifiable. To have that going on and at the same time be trying to run a humanitarian programme that again was politicized by the member states and was being thwarted and blocked by the members of the 661 committee here in New York. Those two things are just incompatible with what I want to do.
And secondly, more importantly, incompatible with the spirit of the UN charter, the Convention on the Rights of the Child, The Convention on Human Rights. I mean, we the United Nations are running a programme that is in fact killing and maiming the children, and the next generation of Iraqis. I mean that is just a disaster. A disaster for the Iraqis and a disaster for the UN.
[end quote]

Don't miss this interview! It is in: http://www.gulfweb.org/doc_show.cfm?ID=682

From another interview, I want to quote his words and make them mine to end this post. On Dec 31, 2002, he said:

<<Sadly, we have to live with the failure of democracy, the racism, the prejudice and demonization of foreign leadership. We are learning to live with a failed UN that tolerates corruption of the Security Council, genocide and war crimes in its own name. We know about double standards and vested self-interest of permanent and other member states on the Council. We watch the rejection of the rule of international law. We are learning to fear the consequences of the "pre-emptive strike" and even more recently a CIA licensed to kill... although it would seem, in light of modern history, this was always so!>>

      http://www.counterpunch.org/halliday1231.html

Juan

_____________________________________________
_____________________________________________

Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 10:44:17 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] Denis Halliday

Denis Halliday was the chief UN Administrator of the "Oil for Food" program in Iraq. His comments about the United Nations Security Council being racist and corrupt, and responsible for the deaths in Iraq refer directly to this program, allegedly developed to "alleviate" the effects of the sanctions.

His statements reflect how the United Nations has dealt with the Iraqi case probably better than anybody else's.

I haven't found his date of birth. All I have seen is that he was "57" in early 1998.

Some biographical information here:
http://www.swarthmore.edu/Home/News/Pubs/WeeklyNews/02/02-5-30.wn.html

Denis Halliday
An Irish national, Halliday graduated from Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland, and holds an M.A. in economics, geography, and public administration. After spending a year in Kenya as a Quaker volunteer, Halliday joined the United Nations in 1964 as a junior professional officer serving in Teheran, Iran, in the forerunner of the United Nations Development Program. He went on to forge a 34-year-long career with the U.N. in development and humanitarian assistance-related posts both in New York and overseas, primarily in Southeast Asia.
In 1994, then-U.N. Secretary-General Boutros Boutros Ghali appointed Halliday Assistant Secretary-General for U.N. Human Resources Management worldwide. It was from this position that he volunteered for Iraq, and in 1997 was named by U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan as U.N. Humanitarian Coordinator in that country. He served in the position until September, 1998, when he resigned to protest U.N. sanctions against the country. Since his resignation from the U.N., Halliday has been involved with the End Sanctions campaign worldwide and is a leading advocate on peace and social justice issues. As Swarthmore's Lang Professor of Social Change in the fall semesters of 1999 and 2000, Halliday taught classes in the College's Peace and Conflict Studies Program.

some more here:
http://www.elmandjra.org/prize2000.htm

The North-South Cultural Communication Prize 2000... In 1999, the Prize was awarded symbolically to all of the children of Iraq and to Denis HALLIDAY (Ireland), who resigned, on Oct 31 1998,  from his position as Coordinator of the Humanitarian Action of the UN in Iraq, in protest against the embargo imposed on Iraq and its disastrous effects on over 500,000 children.

The day he resigned (31 Oct 1998), using 12h GMT:

      Sun = 7,52 Scorpio
      Venus = 8,12 Scorpio
      TL66 = 6,42 Taurus

TL66 is very telling. I already noted its positions in the chart of the United Nations:

>TL66 United Nations = 19,20 Capricorn (sidereal)
>Sun of Islam = 19,52 Cancer
>Mars Iraqi nation = 18,59 Cancer
>Neptune Iraqi nation = 20,27 Cancer
>TL66 right now = 20,25 Aries

This position illuminates the meaning of the present transit (square its own position in the UN chart, square the Sun of Islam). The 1945 contact becomes a signature of the Islam/UN relationship, and helps to understand the meaning of the transit right now and of the words used to describe the situation: racism, corruption, genocide, "scorching", etc., all this perpetrated in the name of the United Nations.

Juan

_____________________________________________
_____________________________________________

Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 08:51:03 -0000
Subject: [Centaurs] Re: Denis Halliday

Personally, putting Astrology aside, I think the situation in Iraq created by the United Nations sanctions --including the "oil for food" program which is a ramification of these, shows not only little humanitarian concern (or not enough) but also a lack of respect for the fundamental sovereignity of a people or nation.

The same thing can be observed in the case of Palestine but in the opposite direction, through the unwillingness to act. The "world powers" at the Security Council deal with international conflicts and try to control the world according to their own convenience. Their own interests and agendas of power always come first.

This was seen in Bosnia, and is evident in the complete disregard of the Chechenian situation.

The fact that all these cases: Bosnia, Palestine, Iraq, Chechenia, are Islamic nations makes it clear to me that the entity called "Islam" is very much alive, and that there is a fundamental problem of racism in the UN Security Council.

The permanent members of the Security Council reveal this racism everyday in a multitude of ways.

Astrologically, the TL66/Sun contact is a sharp confirmation of this and opens some very important doors to understand the role of Islam in today's world, though I am aware that many will ignore it in the same way that the rest of my work involving sidereal positions is ignored.

Juan

_____________________________________________
_____________________________________________

Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 11:53:44 -0600
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] Re: Denis Halliday

I personally don't expect any change coming from the United Nations Security Council or any other political organization. Halliday shows how the Security Council doesn't care that humanitarian aid and sanctions have been politicized and used as a weapon of subjugation and mass destruction.

My feeling about "the role of Islam", as illustrated by the TL66/Sun contact with the United Nations is slowly taking form. It has to do with awareness, with an elevation of the collective consciousness.

I think "Islam" has shown how unjust, anti-democratic and racist the World Powers in the UN Security Council really are. This increased awareness has to do with the willingness of the masses in the Western world to accept the "other" (Islam) in a really humane, non-political, non-"Security Council" way, a way in which one doesn't feel superior to the other or with the right to dictate your destiny.

This "other" includes Death itself (or herself?), incarnated in Islam as a culture of death created by the hegemonical, totalitarian will of the world powers.

Juan

_____________________________________________
_____________________________________________

Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:02:21 -0600
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] Re: Denis Halliday

I was impressed in particular by the words of the French representative (forgot his name). I also saw a couple of interviews to Chirac himself, and was also impressed. I think they both showed hight spiritual stature. The words of the French foreign minister at one of the meetings I saw on TV were beautiful, enlightened, and compassionate... a message worthy of the 21st century.

But those are only words and diplomacy; their actions show the opposite. It is fallacy to say that they cannot take more decisive actions. I'm speaking of the economic sanctions directed against the Iraqi population, the hypocrisy of the double standard when dealing with the cases of Israel/Palestine and Russia/Chechenia, their ultimate failure to stop the United States and England, their failure to act in the case of Bosnia... (a long list here).

World powers like France, Russia, or Germany do not let themselves be bullied or manipulated unless that is part of their economic and political agenda.

I am not talking of the United Nations' General Assembly, but of the Security Council which falsely presents itself as "United Nations" in order to give an appearance of legitimacy to their racism and political cowardice.

I have not thought of "Holy War" at all. It is through their suffering that I feel they are teaching something invaluable to the world today.

I am not sure or have not thought enough of possible solutions. But of what I am sure is that there is no redemption for this world if its fate is in the hands of the diplomats and politicians at the UN Security Council.. (NOTE:  I consider the American administration is part of that Council.)

Reminds me of King Crimson's "Epitaph".

Juan

_____________________________________________
_____________________________________________

Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 19:34:00 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] Epitaph - was Denis Halliday

King Crimson's "Epitaph"  (1969) has always been hair-raising for me to hear. It is very relevant today:

The wall on which the prophets wrote
Is cracking at the seams.
Upon the instruments of death
The sunlight brightly gleams.
When every man is torn apart
With nightmares and with dreams,
Will no one lay the laurel wreath
As silence drowns the screams.

Between the iron gates of fate,
The seeds of time were sown,
And watered by the deeds of those
Who know and who are known;
Knowledge is a deadly friend
When no one sets the rules.
The fate of all mankind I see
Is in the hands of fools.

Confusion will be my epitaph.
As I crawl a cracked and broken path
If we make it we can all sit back
and laugh.
But I fear tomorrow I'll be crying,
Yes I fear tomorrow I'll be crying.


The data of the song is given here:

      http://membres.lycos.fr/as33/ElephantWalk/kc-i/KC-I-sfr.htm

The AltaVista translation reads:

<<Epitaph [ including March For No Reason & Tomorrow And Tomorrow ] Composition Fripp, Lake, McDonald, Giles & Sinfield - 1969 Interpreted in concert by KC I 1st recording studio BBC - May 6, 1969 - studios Maida Vale (available in the Epitaph box) Recording in concert Epitaph (7/09/69; 21/10/69; 14/12/69) Live At the Marquee, 1969 (6/07/69) The bases of the song come from Greg Lake. The song will be composed by the whole during one evening of repetition.>>

Dates of birth are found here:

      http://www.classicwebs.com/kingcrim.htm

"Epitaph" is credited to the whole band, but it may be valid to take the data of Robert Fripp since he is the unquestionable leader. He was born May 16, 1946, Wimbourne, England. We can take also the date of birth of Greg Lake, the vocalist, since it is said that <<les bases de la chanson proviennent de Greg Lake>>. He was born November 10, 1948, Bournemouth, England.

The day when the album was released is given here as October 10, 1969:

      http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/singerUnid/1E0973BD5DF9FFFB48256A8700147911

The first date chronologically seems to be that of the studio recording - May 6, 1969. I use noon GMT and sidereal for all the dates:

      TL66 Robert Fripp = 22,10 Capricorn
      TL66 Greg Lake = 22,24 Capricorn
      Pluto Greg Lake = 22,31 Cancer
      Sun Greg Lake = 23,59 Libra

      Sun 1st recording = 21,28 Aries
      CZ118 1st recording = 21,21 Cancer
      CZ118 album release = 23,28 Cancer

Juan

   
 
Return to index page