Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 10:06:24 -0600
Subject: Re: Asbolus

[Stravinsky's Moon conjunct Asbolus]

I would put it like this: his childhood/Moon was "damaged", his parents inflicted harm and pain on him in terms of rigidity and coldness, so that he became an outsider, isolated in his inner world and rejecting the more instinctive softness and sensuousness, superficially at least. ... his whole life would be a search for the mother, for the womb, which he didn't have in childhood, so this "void", this need, controls his life.

He became a rebel, a survivor.

In his words, referring to his piano teacher:
<<Her mental restriction and her formulas contributed a lot to the accumulation of a great bitterness around my 25th year, when I broke with everything that tied me and rebelled against her and against everything that had been useless and absurd in my studies and in my family>>

His style of composition is compact and explosive, aggressively breaking the traditional symmetrical phrasing, always with an "unwavering pulse" which "helped to make many of his compositions suitable for dancing" (Britannica). In this, one can see how his rebelliousness was manifested in his music, where he expressed his search for healthy and vigorous "freedom" from the excesses of feeling... trying to find the balance and the health within himself.

What he wrote about Serge Diaguilev, who was responsible for his most brilliant compositions and made him famous, may be related to him (see how centaurean it sounds):

<<What impresses me most about him is the extent that his tenacity and his resistance achieve when his is pursuing a goal. He always produces fear, and, at the same time, he gave a sensation of quietness when working with him. He made mistakes often, and even did crazy things, he was dragged by passion and by his temper, two forces that were always stronger than him.>> [good subject study for centaurs this Diaguilev!]



Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 12:13:20 -0600
Subject: Re: Diaghilev

... I was spelling it as it is written in Spanish, from which I am re-translating the quotes of Stravinsky, and I didn't check.

My encyclopedia says Diaghilev was born March 31 [March 19, old style], 1872:

Sun = 11,05 Aries (at Noon GMT)
Chiron = 10,51 Aries
Hylonome = 12,37 Libra Rx.

Quite impressive! He is portrayed (by Alan Bates) in the film "Nijinsky" (1980), written in part by Romola Nijinsky, and as I remember when I saw it many years ago, he is presented as very much responsible for triggering Nijinsky's schizophrenia.

Nijinsky has an interesting Pholus (He was born March 12 1890, in Kiev, around  10:30 p.m.):

Sun = 22.14 Pisces
Venus = 27,45 Pisces
Pholus = 28,35 Pisces
Lunar Node = 28,52 Gemini.

This lunar node is also in conjunction with Chariklo/Hylonome:

South Node = 28,52 Sagittarius
Hylonome = 30,05 Sagittarius (0,05 Cap)
Chariklo = 30,40 Sagittarius (0,40 Cap)



Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 07:32:24 -0600
Subject: Sharon Tate and Asbolus

[from another list]:
>Sharon Tate born Jan 24 1943, Dallas, Texas, 17:47 Ascendant 21-Cancer
>murdered on August 9 1969.  She was 8 months pregnant.

This puts the radix Sun in 4,05 Aquarius. When she was killed, August 9, 1969, transiting Asbolus was in 4,35 Leo (corrected for precession to her time of birth 22').

In my article on Asbolus I had offered some words that tentatively describe Asbolus' world, of which the following, I think, may apply here:

Sin, punishment, tabu, hiding places.
Fear. the void, the pit...
Confession, or what is inconfessable.
The bleeding heart.
What devours or swallows...



Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 08:37:49 -0600
Subject: Re: Sharon Tate and Asbolus

I would like to clarify how I arrived at those descriptions.

I don't know if you remember, but about 4 months ago I had posted a set of "keywords" for Pholus, Nessus, and 195GO in Spanish with English translation. These are the same.

They were based on intuitions of "The Scarlet Letter", Mel Gibson, Jules Verne, Mabel Collins, and Stravinsky, and were inspired specially by the extreme eccentricity of GO, larger that of Pholus and Nessus.

At the time I felt that GO had a lot to do with "tabu" and all that surrounded it, like sin, fear, confession... and yes, "hell". I think you got the correct idea there.

I still have the same perceptions; but it is not only "personal hell", that's why I gave also the image of "the eagle and the serpent", and "the light that shines in the darkness", etc.

There are other aspects of Asbolus that other people can perceive better than me.

"The Music of the Spheres" that Yakshi referred to is interesting. In order to listen to it, one has to be really far out, way beyond the normal sensory perception, in Asbolus world. But how do you get there? You have to be a little crazy first, a little "sick", a little wild, a little dead...



Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:24:49 -0600
Subject: Re: Quotations - Bergman

If Ingmar Bergman really has the Moon conjunct Asbolus (born July 14, 1918, in Uppsala, said time 12h --e.g. Robert v. Heeren VIP list), then the following quotations from the Britannica about him are some of the best I have seen regarding Centaur symbolism.

Moon = 1,25 Libra
Asbolus = 2,23 Libra
Chiron = 3,27 Aries Rx.
Sun = 21,11 Cancer
TL66 = 22,14 Capricorn Rx.


<<... his bleak depiction of human loniless, vulnerability, and torment.>>

<<... (during his childhood) Swedish churches, which fascinated him and gave him a vital interest in the visual presentation of ideas, especially the idea of evil as embodied in the devil.>>

<<... examine the issues of morality by exploring man's relationship to himself, to others, and to God.>>

<<Bergman's anguished appraisal of the human situation has lost nothing of its intensity through the years; rather, he has progressively stripped away the distracting decorations in his film to create an abstract drama of man's relation with man and perhaps with God (if he exists).
<<He deals with man's attempt to define his own personality by removing his masks to see if there is face underneath. The images of the creator as actor and the creator as magician recur throughout Bergman's work. He himself embodies elements of both the thinker and the actor, the preacher and the charlatan...>>


The titles in English of his films sound to me like a description of Asbolus:

the devil's wanton, thirst, or three strange loves, illicit interlude
secrets of women, the naked night, dreams
the seventh seal,wild strawberries, brink of life
the magician, or the face, the virgin spring, the devil's eye
through a glass darkly, winter light, the silence
hour of the wolf, shame, the passion of Anna, cries and whispers
the serpent's egg...

I feel these titles can be used to explain (imaginatively) to a newcomer what the centaurs are about.



Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 14:16:27 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] Re: Julia Roberts

I had kept this one for later, since I like Julia Roberts a lot, and was interested in taking a look myself to her chart

[Zane writes:]
<<Julia Fiona Roberts was born October 28, 1967, 12:16 AM, Atlanta, Georgia (data from "People Profiles: Julia Roberts" by E. Ladowsky)... Julia's Sun is 4 Scorpio 03... her MC (16 Aries 46)... Ascendant (27 Cancer 53)... Moon (24 Leo 47).>>

Thank you for this data, Zane. This is for 12:16 +4h...  the Moon is rising and very strong, which explains why I like her so much; I feel this Moon explains her special charm and "magic", her "charisma":

Moon = 24,47 Leo
1996TO66 = 25,11 Aquarius
Chiron = 26,00 Pisces

--her Venus is very centaurean, like this:

QM107(=Orneus) = 16,45 Virgo
Venus = 18,06 Virgo
Venus/QM107 midpoint = 17,26 Virgo
==> Hylonome = 17,58 Gemini Rx.

and Venus applies to:

Pylenor/QM107 = 19,13 Virgo
94TA(=Pylenor) = 21,41 Virgo
Pluto - 21,57 Virgo

With these 3 centaurs tied to her Venus/Pluto conjunction, all the harshness and crudity of Pluto is given a more "human" turn, greatly enhanced by the delicacy of the Moon rising. (please note that I am not basing this on midpoints. The midpoints simply add strength to the aspects and justify the use of 2 or 3 degree-orbs.)

As noted by Zane, the Sun is sextile Mars / square Pholus:

Sun = 4,06 Sco
Mars = 3,46 Cap
Asbolus = 3,55 Leo

The rising Asbolus in the 12th is even more descriptive of some of her roles as described by Zane:

"She's been in Flatliners, which has to do with experimenting with death; Dying Young; Conspiracy Theory where she gets drawn into dealing with a real conspiracy; I Love Trouble, where she plays an investigative reporter trying to uncover the mystery behind a train derailment."

--This to me shows how strong Asbolus is in her chart (and how strong a Planets so situated is in any chart). The "Pretty Woman" is of course the Moon and those 2nd house centaurs surrounding Venus... a good fit for the prostitute-Cinderella fairy-tale role.



Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 18:40:36 -0600
From: (Juan Revilla)
Subject: [Centaurs] Re: Julia Roberts

The fairy-tale seems to me related to the Moon and to the Venus/Hylonome... surrounded by QM107, Hylonome, and Pylenor... and of course the rising Asbolus.

I feel mystery surrounding Asbolus, like smog or "the beyond".

<<Another 'fairy tale' type role...she played Tinkerbell in the Peter Pan movie a few years ago.>>[Zane]

Right. That's a most wonderful fairy! Seeing her chart, what I can identify more with this is that Venus. I would like to know how others can see this aspect of her in her basic chart.



Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 10:13:22 -0600
From: (Juan Revilla)
Subject: [Centaurs] Re: Digest... - Asbolus

I perceive Asbolus as something similar to a fog, something dreamy, an atmosphere, an oven (as opposed to the "heat" or the ardor of Mars). So it has to do with fairy tales, mystery, conspiracy, etc., something Mars is not related to.

It is a question of level. Centaurs work at the level of the outer planets, from Saturn onwards (sometimes they come closer to Jupiter, as is the case of Asbolus). They bring the transcendental and irreducible experiences of love, life, death, redemption, pain, ecstasy, to our daily lives, acting like "arrows" or "dards" that keep us in touch with the "unhealed", the outcast or "Cain" aspect of our soul.

Asbolus in particular, is one of the "giant" crossers, like Pholus and Nessus, it "breaks", crossing moral and psychological barriers, and, like all centaurs, remains an outsider. Like a clairvoyant is, or an artist who can feel the "music of the spheres" --the presence of another world or reality that may either enrich and deepen our daily experience, or clash with it and make us sick.

Since it is square to the Sun, it is the very basic perception of herself what is being challenged by Asbolus. Being a little fairy (Tinkerbell), a Cinderella-prostitute, a lonely woman that is chased by conspirators... These are all things that challenge the Sun, that put her "down", creating a symbolical world that --at least to me-- talks of loneliness, of a Sun that is "groping" behind, that is waiting to be redeemed: they talk of a transformative process that has left the realm of shadows and has become "humane" and compassionate, representing something with which each of us can identify.

This is the meaning of the fairy tale becoming real in a movie, becoming woman, becoming her. This is what centaurs do. They move slow... they create an atmosphere, something that is unsettled, that is in process, unresolved except in an inner world... and in the case of Asbolus, that is "igneous".

Someone may think that this idea is because of the fire in my chart, but I don't have this "igneous" perception of the other centaur. Asbolus is both dreamy and pure inner "ash" and smoke.



Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 21:52:57 -0600
Subject: Re: Nicholas Cage

Ann wrote weeks ago:
<<Nicolas Cage... His birth data is 1/7/64 5:30 a.m. L.A.,CA.>>

--This is what I find:

Mars    = 25,33 Cap
Moon    = 26,13 Lib
Asbolus = 26,39 Can r

A T-cross with a Mars/Asbolus axis focused on the Moon. I think this is his main signature, especially important here since the Moon is so representative of acting. This T-cross describes all of his roles, and his physical appearance, which Ann characterizes as "such beautiful ugliness".

When I picture his tragic face in my imagination, I see the Moon in such an aspect with Asbolus. There is one role he played once that I absolutely loved: that of a man who thought himself to be a vampire even to the point of dying like one (he also slept under his sofa that he had turned upside down to simulate a coffin); we can see Asbolus there, as well as the alcoholic in love with a prostitute of the film by which he received the Oscar.

--another signature is this:

Pholus  = 16,06 Aqu
Sun     = 16,17 Cap
SG35    = 16,18 Sag

The Sun is in the exact midpoint of the 2 centaurs: this the "howling" (Pholus) that Ann speaks of his last movie.

From this we can see that the first and most exact contacts of both the Sun and the Moon are Centaurs: he is a centaur all around, and Ann's intuition regarding him was right on the spot.

<<... referred to being so nervous before kissing his prom date he vomitted, as well as working out pain of breakups-particularly in Zandalee which was publically critisized for it's explicit sex which was characterized as pornographic, though I find it a raw expression of emotion/pain and integral to the movie. Ann>>

I would tend to see this particular intensity, rawness, and pain of his personality in these aspects. Since they are so exact, to me they take precedence among all others, and serve as guides to understand a little more about Asbolus and about Okyrhoe, of which we know less.



Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 22:57:20 -0600
Subject: Re: Question about Centaurs and writers, artists, etc. on the Underworld

[Salvador Dali]
May 11, 1904, in Figueras (42n16/02e57) a little before 9 a.m. according to M. Gauquelin in "Your Personality and The Planets" p.158 (1980). Done for 8:45 a.m.:

Moon    =  2,28 Ari
Midheav =  3,10 Ari
Neptune =  4,01 Can
Ascend  = 22,14 Can
UG5     = 22,36 Cap r

... but perhaps the most significant configuration is:

Asbolus = 18,58 Leo
Sun     = 20,13 Tau (sextile Nessus in 20,34 Pis)
Saturn  = 20,40 Aqu
Mercury = 23,29 Tau r
TF35    = 24,58 Leo
Mars    = 25,11 Tau

which is : Sun-Mercury-Mars in conjunction in Taurus, squaring (axis of T-Cross) Asbolus in 19 and TF35 in 25 Leo, and Saturn in 20 Aquarius. Sun/Saturn is the trigger. Even with the involvement of Asbolus and TF35, Dali does not look (and does not feel) like a centaurean subject to me. Lovecraft and S. King are more centaurean, with Lovecraft more in the direction of the trans-Neptunian and S. King in the direction of the centaurs.




Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 07:22:55 -0600
Subject: H.P. Lovecraft


Asbolus at death = 27,45 Taurus
Sun at birth     = 27,27 Leo

Asbolus is "mystery" and "mist"...




Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 10:34:40 -0600
Subject: Re: Castaneda data

At 07:52 02/13/2000 -0500, Hugh wrote:
>Asbolus 25,23 Cap
>Node    25,42 Can
>Jupiter 27,25 Cap
>MC      28,09 Cap


Apart from this Asbolus/Node, I find:

Nessus   = 14,03 Aries Rx.
Moon     = 14,26 Taurus rising
Chariklo = 14,18 Geminis
Pluto    = 13,53 Cancer

The Moon exactly in the Nessus/Chariklo m.p.. Chariklo is augmented by Iris in 14,22 Gemini and Pallas in 15,15 Gemini).

I read him a long time ago and my memory is not too fresh, but intuitively, I would associate Pholus with him and with the figure of Don Juan. The Chariklo/Moon/Nessus/Pluto I would associate with the indigenous shamanistic life-style with which he is identified. In a way, Pholus and Asbolus are similar in their very large "wings" (=journeys), but I feel Pholus more trickster-like or more savage, while Asbolus may be closer to the image of the magician.



Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 07:47:27 -0600
Subject: Salvador Dali

As it often happens, the death chart is illuminating. Dali died January 23, 1989, in Figueras. According to Marion March (but she doesn't remember the source), he died at 10:15 in the morning:

Moon at death    = 19,03 Leo (precesion=1,11)
Asbolus at birth = 18,58 Leo

Here I see Asbolus imaginatively as "heat", as an atmosphere of "creative fusion", as alchemy. The trans-Neptunians are also involved:

TL66 at birth  = 14,28 Capricorn
QM107 at birth = 15,14 Capricorn
TL66 at death  = 14,54 Aries
Venus at death = 14,37 Capricorn (precession 1,11)

TO66 at birth  = 13,54 Scorpio
Pluto at death = 13,50 Scorpio

Besides the Moon/Asbolus conjunction, we have this Venus/TL66 (and QM107) combination. Perhaps TL66 signals to the radicality of his art: the way in which he "shatters" the reality of time and space as perceived by the senses.



Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 16:13:09 -0600
Subject: Aleister Crowley

>Aleister Crowley, born October 12, 1875, @ 11:30 p.m., Leamington Spa,
>England (001,31 W, 52,18 N);

Let's see if I can put aside the extreme repulsion I feel for him. I will use also his day of death: Decmeber 1, 1947, in Brighton, Sussex (precession 1,00. I assume 12 Noon.)

First, let's examine his birth Sun:

1181 Lilith = 18,00 Libra
Sun         = 19,14 Libra
TD10        = 21,00 Libra
Mars        = 22,53 Capricorn
Chiron      = 24,16 Aries
Venus       = 24,24 Libra.

Pholus at death = 23,19 Capricorn (conjunct Mars). He is a "Pholus clown of the aggressive type", an expert Venus-hunter and Venus-user who called himself "the Beast" (after the nickname his mother gave him) and was delighted to be considered by the media "the wickedest man in the world" (1999TD10).

Tl66 at birth    = 29,29 Sagittarius
TF35 at birth    = 29,58 Gemini
Asbolus at death = 29,58 Gemini
Venus at death   = 30,01 Saggitarius (0,01 Capricorn)

Great! Now I know what Venus/TL66 means (as in Dali): it is the "Law of Thelema": 'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law'.

... Hylonome seems to have a clue to his life:

Hylonome at birth = 29,01 Libra
QB1 at birth      = 29,20 Libra
Hylonome at death = 29,08 Libra

And lastly we can check his over-weening ambition and bombastic gestures:

birth Nessus  = 10,31 Sagittarius
death Sun     =  7,27 Sagittarius
death Jupiter =  7,23 Sagittarius
birth Jupiter =  7,08 Scorpio
death Nessus  =  7,53 Taurus



Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 14:15:38 -0600
Subject: Re: Aleister Crowley

>From: "Jonathan C. Dunn" <>
>Asbolus         Rx   7 Can 35 47 
>true Node            8 Ari 26 27

I missed this Asbolus/Node, thanks. It certainly looks important, and again it shows how important the nodes are. This fits what I recently wrote about Asbolus:

"... Asbolus may be closer to the image of the magician." (regarding Carlos Castaneda).

Here is something more on Asbolus I wrote in another list, with Moon/Asbolus in mind:

"Asbolus is one of the wild ones with "large wings" (extreme eccentricity which translates in cometary behavior and large displacements through space). Imaginatively, it is like getting into an alchemical oven: a lot of mist and mystery, "density", otherworldliness, "fusion" of outer and inner reality, abnormally intense feelings, psychological penetration,
bewilderment, morality trespassing. It is like a misty or Neptunian Pluto but much softer and "daily". It is like a living dream (letting myself go by my imagination...). In a nutshell: Neptune/Pluto come into the world of Jupiter and Saturn, and the danger this entails.."



Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 14:45:27 -0600
Subject: Re: Aleister Crowley

... I feel that Asbolus is more igneous or internal, very "dense". I see his Asbolus more related to his sexual practices, drug-related "spiritual" revelations and "astral" fantasy, demonic magic, etc. The worst kind of "occultism" there is.


____________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________

Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 06:58:51 -0600
Subject: Re: asbolus

... I too feel that he is fiery, but it is the fire of the alchemical oven, or of Hell, or of the witches' cauldron.

Asbolus' eccentricity is larger than that of any other centaur except the super-centaur TD10.  When it is close to the Sun around Jupiter, it travels 9 times faster than when at aphelion near Neptune.  This always gave me the feeling of unfathomable depths and seeing-through the fog, or coming from it.

... sacrifice... or doom.  Just letting my feelings go here... There is a sense of tragedy, a magical figure coming from "the fog of time", from another world or reality.

There is an interesting movie by 2 very Asbolus actors: Mel Gibson (opposition Sun) and Julia Roberts (square Sun in 1st house)... forgot the tittle..., where he is a victim of torture, brainwashing experiments, and a conspiracy.

This word "conspiracy" is consistent with Asbolus.

I feel that your association with strong belief/faith is correct for Asbolus.


____________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 22:32:37 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] 2 Dec 1942

This chart is analyzed my Marc Edmund Jones in his book on the Sabian Symbols. It is done for "3:01 p.m. LMT", ==> 20h52m GMT ==> 15h52m CWT, Ascendant 13 Taurus.

In "Timelines of History" (, the time is given as 3:45 p.m., only 7 minutes before the time used by Marc E. Jones.

another description: <<On December 2, 1942 the first nuclear chain reaction occurred. Control rods were removed from the uranium and graphite "nuclear pile" at 3:45 P.M, causing the neutrons from fissioning uranium to split other atoms, which in turn splits others in a chain reaction. This event marked the first controlled nuclear reaction for the United States.>> []

So, apparently, the "3:25 p.m." time is inaccurate. Please read the following very detailed account, found in

At 2:50 the control rod came out another foot. The counters nearly jammed, the pen headed off the graph paper. But this was not it. Counting ratios and the graph scale had to be changed. "Move it six inches," said Fermi at 3:20. Again the change--but again the leveling off. Five minutes later, Fermi called: "Pull it out another foot." Weil withdrew the rod. "This is going to do it," Fermi said to Compton, standing at his side. "Now it will become self-sustaining. The trace will climb and continue to climb. It will not level off." Fermi computed the rate of rise of the neutron counts over a minute period. He silently, grim-faced, ran through some calculations on his slide rule. In about a minute he again computed the rate of rise. If the rate was constant and remained so, he would know the reaction was self-sustaining. His fingers operated the slide rule with lightning speed. Characteristically, he turned the rule over and jotted down some figures on its ivory back. Three minutes later he again computed the rate of rise in neutron count. The group on the balcony had by now crowded in to get an eye on the instruments, those behind craning their necks to be sure they would know the very instant history was made. In the background could be heard Wilcox Overbeck calling out the neutron count over an annunicator system. Leona Marshall (the only girl present), Anderson, and William Sturm were recording the readings from the instruments. By this time the click of the counters was too fast for the human ear. The clickety-click was now a steady brrrr. Fermi, unmoved, unruffled, continued his computations. "I couldn't see the instruments," said Weil. "I had to watch Fermi every second, waiting for orders. He face was motionless. His eyes darted from one dial to another. His expression was so calm it was hard to read. But suddenly, his whole face broke into a broad smile." Fermi closed his slide rule--- "The reaction is self-sustaining," he announced quietly, happily. "The curve is exponential." The group tensely watched for twenty-eight minutes while the world's first nuclear chain reactor operated. The upward movement of the pen was leaving a straight line. There was no change in indicate a leveling off. This was it. "O.K., 'Zip' in," called Fermi to Zinn who controlled that rod. The time was 3:53 p.m. Abruptly, the counters slowed down, the pen slid down across the paper. It was all over.

This is only 1 minute from the time used by Marc Edmund Jones, and, from the account just quoted, it is the one I would use (i.e. 20h 52-53m GMT)

At this time, Asbolus is physically EXACTLY over the horizon (about 40 seconds of time --0,10'-- past its rising point using one set of conventional coordinates for Chicago). In addition to the secret surrounding this experiment, which is one of the common manifestations of Asbolus ("hiding", "secrets", "mystery", "conspiracy"), recall some of the other keywords: "oven", "igneous", ... "fusion", "alchemy", "density".


____________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________

Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 11:24:40 -0600
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] 2 Dec 1942

"The group tensely watched for twenty-eight minutes while the world's first nuclear chain reactor operated. The upward movement of the pen was leaving a straight line. There was no change in indicate a leveling off. This was it. "O.K., 'Zip' in," called Fermi to Zinn who controlled that rod. The time was 3:53 p.m. Abruptly, the counters slowed down, the pen slid down across the paper. It was all over."

Since 3:53 minus 28 minutes gives 3:25, it seems that:

- 3:25 is the time when the chain reaction started, but there was no way of knowing that for sure at the moment, measurements had to be taken during the 28-minutes period that the reaction lasted before it could be ascertained that it was indeed a chain reaction.

- 3:53 is the time when it was shot down and the experiment concluded. This is when people could say: Yes! We did it!

... so it is probably a matter of taste which time do you choose. I prefer the last one, since I think it is the most symbolical.

At this time, in addition to Asbolus being exactly (physically, not ecliptically) rising on the horizon, we find that TL66 had culminated over Washington's meridian (the MC line of astro-cartography) only 1.7 minutes before:

3:24 p.m.= Pholus culminates
3:27 p.m.= TF35 sets
3:32 p.m.= OX3 sets in Washington
3:36 p.m.= Asbolus rises in Washington
3:39 p.m.= Mars sets in Washington
3:43 p.m.= BU48 clminates in Washington
3:51 p.m.= TL66 culminates in Washington
3:52 p.m.= Asbolus rises
3:53 p.m.= Jupiter anti-culminates (I.C.)

This is an exact and powerful Jupiter/Asbolus paran, which maybe we could take as a signature or symbol of the nuclear chain-reaction (Asbolus=the fision or fusion, Jupiter=the expansion). What was Jupiter/Asbolus for Enrico Fermi and his team, was TL66 for Washington.

Ecliptically, we find that the position of Asbolus the day of the chain reaction was exactly in conjunction with E. Fermi's radical Pluto:

Fermi's Pluto = 18,40 Gemini
tr. Asbolus 2-12-42 = 18,53 Gemini R. (precession-corrected)

Another testimony of the role of Asbolus in nuclear fusion/fission can be seen the day of the Trinity explosion:

Fermi natal Asbolus = 18,10 Leo
tr. Mercury at Trinity = 18,45 Leo (precession-corrected)

<<The atomic pile in 1942 at the University of Chicago released for the first time a controlled flow of energy from a source other than the Sun; it was the forerunner of the modern nuclear reactor, which releases the basic binding energy of matter for peaceful purposes.>> [Britannica]


... if Asbolus/Pluto meant for Enrico Fermi that he was finally able to produce the controlled nuclear fission... what could Asbolus/Pluto mean for the world?

As you know, they were conjunct last Dec 14th at 11,57 Saggitarius. The last time they were in conjunction was June 13, 1856, at 4,26 Taurus, and before that they were conjunct in 1774. I already suggested, following Zane's idea, that one of its possible correlations is probably the recent US election, especially the way in which the finality and solemnity of the country's or State's "Supreme Courts" has suffered.

How can we relate nuclear fission with the recent elections? with 1856? with 1774?

NOTE: the complete Asbolus/Pluto cycle from 1000 AD to 2020 is tabulated in:


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Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 13:55:11 -0600
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] Introduction, Question & Asbolus

ref: exact Sun/Asbolus conjunction in Leo in the 8th house

Personally, I would not label Asbolus as having to do with "destruction and death" directly. To me, that probably goes more with the transneptunians. I would say rather that it has to do --among many other things-- with feelings of fear and anguish (such as those provoked by death), more in the line of the "tragedy" and "evil" that you mentioned.

You give the example of how you "felt" physically the destruction of the WTC and the start of the bombing of Afghanistan. However, you don't actually tell us what exactly you felt. It is so difficult to translate into words those feelings, but an attempt at description would be very helpful here.

The "destruction and death" label that you use to describe the experience could be more the Sun/CY118 conjunction of the WTC event, while Asbolus/Sun maybe has more to do with your ability to "interiorize" human dread, to "go inside" of it. This is the equivalent of "going inside" the darkness and the terror because you have a strong affinity with it, because it is part of your own history (and destiny), and also your "gift of vision", through which you can creatively transform that darkness into awareness of "the fear and the trembling", the "moral density".

That's why among my original keywords for Asbolus I had included "the light that is in darkness". I later erased this part (I don't remember why right now, I changed it for "the mysteries of blood"), but that expression would qualify for the Sun-Asbolus conjunction, and it is not negative as "destruction and fear".

About the phrase you use: "awareness of", I think it is really a phrase we can apply to any astrological significator.


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Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 20:08:36 -0600
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] Introduction, Question & Asbolus

Asbolus maybe is not "fear", it is the atmosphere, "the cloud" of fear...

When I was writing my response very early in the morning, I had an insight...

... I felt that Asbolus was blind...

and began to explain how the Sun/Asbolus conjunction can be likened to the healing process of a victim of gross abuse. But I gave up and erased that part, since describing the process became too complicated at the moment.

The "blindness" of Asbolus can be interpreted in many ways, negative and positive... it is all part of the fog. It can mean clairvoyance or real darkness down to "moral density" and "evil".

Your phrase "ability to see" or "awareness of" in my opinion reflects the solar/leonine part of your Sun/Asbolus conjunction in Leo.

I'd say that Asbolus by itself "traps" people into its "moral density", its "oven" or "fog".  This can "possess" you and you yourself become the darkness, the "devil", the "gross" or "dense" and "nightmarish" perpetrator of the abuse, or you can dive in the darkness with your own inner light, like the magician or the alchemist, capable of seeing and hearing in the dark.


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Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 16:09:12 -0600
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] Introduction, Question & Asbolus

I am not thinking about the orbit right now, but in the past that is how I originally developed a "feel" for Asbolus, when it was not yet named and was just "1995GO". The main part of "Asbolus, the Seer" was written (posted here) before the name "Asbolus" came to be. So, logically, my perception of it originates in those first cases I dealt with, and was influenced by the orbit as well as by the imaginative "forms" evoked by the combination of letters "GO".

When the name "Asbolus" was given to it, that also influenced my perception, not because of the mythology, but because of the associations that the sound "ASBOL" evoke in me. Mythology has played no part in the formation of my ideas about Asbolus. When I encounter the mythology, I see it from the angle that the other 3 things have already helped establish.

My perception is the result of dealing with cases where Asbolus is critical and qualifying what I thought are the main characteristics of those cases in terms of the categories implicit in the orbital and name associations. It is a process where the 3 things: critical cases, orbital symbolism, and free associations coming from its designation or its name come together and approach the meaning of Asbolus as if by successive approximations.

The "abysmal" evocations that I first got from Asbolus are the result of the first cases I examined (Jules Verne, Nathaniel Hawthorne, Nietszche, Anne Frank) combined with the sounds of "GO" and the very large eccentricity of its orbit. They combine themselves in my imagination and together produce a series of pictures or evocations.

The part of the orbital symbolism associated with centaurs of large eccentricity is explained in my notes on "Sade and Casanova", in "Pholus Orbit Symbolism", and in "Asbolus the Seer", especially in the last two. I have pending the organization of a lot of other material on orbital symbolism that I wrote in the crp list. There is enough to make a little book...

from "Sade and Casanova":

<<Perhaps they are more "luciferian", heretic, dissident, conscript, etc, because their orbits are very similar, very cometary, while the others, with Chiron in the middle, are milder in this respect, less "crucified". Perhaps the rounder ones (i.e., rounding up the orbits of 2 main planets), make jumps, or "captures" as Hugh said, maybe like alien abductors, while the "wild ones", the comets... are life-sweepers, astral tempests, luciferic fights, or flights...>>


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Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 09:08:06 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] the Pluto/Asbolus conjunction and the US presidency.

I was re-reading what I wrote about the recent Pluto/Asbolus conjunction (11,57 Sag, Nov 13 2000). I had forgotten about it. I would like to repeat small fractions of it now, since I think it helps understand the role of Asbolus in the present global situation. The original posts can be found in:

Today, I know that the Pluto/Asbolus conjunction marked the time when Bush became the US president, and also marked the way in which he achieved this. This Pluto/Asbolus heralded also what was to come.

I am adding "blindness" to my keywords for Asbolus.


Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 08:22:21 -0600

--This US election is making news all over the world. From what I hear, something similar has not happened in a long time before... so we probably may assume that this is at least one of the main meanings world-wide of this conjunction, especially since Pluto represents the "power" the US has politically and economically in the world.

--There is "a mist" (Asbolus). Nobody really knows who won. I don't feel it was really a conspiracy, but this may have triggered some conspirators to try to stop the other party from ending up with more votes.

Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 09:51:28 -0600 (ACT)

Abraham Lincoln died April 15, 1865, at 7:22 a.m. in Washington, after having been shot the night before. The exact time appears in p.400 of National Geographic Magazine Vol.137 No.3, March' 70, given by Park Service historian John Lissimore.

In my opinion, the moment of death of Lincoln is a good representative of American democracy, historically speaking, unlike the moment of declaration of Independence... you all know better than I what Lincoln represents...

At that moment, the Moon was in 13,57 Sagittarius (13,24 topocentric), so Pluto is about to make conjunction with it, tropically speaking. As I see it, from the very sad events happening in Florida right now (and especially, to me, yesterday), the panorama is grim.

If one considers precession, then one finds that Chiron was in 14,29 Sagittarius the day of the elections (Nov. 7 2000 at 18h CST). Maybe a sign of a "wound" to American democracy that nobody could predict? A disease and a "fissure" in American society that has come to the surface and is in need of a cure?

Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 11:35:57 -0600

There is a clear connection with Asbolus in all this:

Asbolus of Lincoln (death) = 10,42 Gemini
Asbolus/Pluto conjunction Dec 14 2000 0h07m GMT = 10,04 Sagittarius
Uranus U.S. independence = 10,08 Gemini
(both precession-corrected to the time of Lincoln's death)

I don't know how to interpret the role of Asbolus here. Generally speaking, we can say it fits the chaotic mess that this elections have become. The involvement of Pluto/Uranus suggests something like a very anti-democratic power-snatching (either Bush or Gore, depending on your sympathy), but it is the involvement of Asbolus that intrigues me. If I make use of my keywords in order to have some light in this:

[I am omitting the keywords and leaving only the commentary]

- it suggests that there is something "fishy" in the Florida counting of the votes.

- some people believe there was a conspiracy. Was there or is there one?. Certainly, there is one very obvious, which is to avoid counting the undervote ballots at all costs (or to count them at all costs?)...

- this suggests to me the loss of respect in the decisions of the Supreme Court. Both Supreme Courts, the Florida and the Federal, have acquired an image of partisanship. The "tabu", the "myth" represented by Higher Justices and their imposing sense of finality is breaking down in the image of the public.


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