Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 08:30:53 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] the U.S. Israeli lobby, 2: Pylenor

Regarding the relationship between the state of Israel and G.W. Bush, there is one (to me) very intriguing aspect:

sidereal Sun of Bush = 19,47 Gemini
sidereal Pylenor/94TA of Israel = 19,10 Gemini

There is a possibility that the position of Pylenor in 1948 may vary a little once its orbit is refined, but it probably will change only half a degree or so, maybe less.  Let's assume, as an exercise, that the conjunction will remain close and focal; it means that this is the strongest aspect of their relationship.

We can generalize the meaning and say: this is the relationship between "the Bush ideology" and the State of Israel. Bush --and whatever he represents-- "incarnates" the Pylenor of Israel. "Bush is Pylenor" for the Israeli State. Since Bush has such a weakened Sun...

NOTE: I explained how he is dominated by the Moon here:

... we can assume that Pylenor here overshadows the Sun. In my commentaries on "Pylenor and the Palestinians", I wrote the following about Pylenor after examining the astrological evidence:

<<... one can say that the transit of Pylenor over the natal Sun effective from June 2001 to April 2002 extends in practical terms the Pylenorian emphasis in Israel's chart from 1999 to 2002.>>

<<The more I think of it, the more clear it becomes that Pylenor refers to the Palestinians *within* Israeli society, and how they are handled by the Israeli government. The symbolism of the Sun and their fight to be recognized as a true state (not what Israel is willing to grant them under the name of "a State") is fitting.>>

What we have, technically speaking, is this: the time of the Pylenor transit over Israel's Sun (2001 to 2002) and of Israel's Sun/Pylenor solar arc (1999-2000) coincides with the Bush presidential campaign (2000) and with 2 years of his mandate (2001-2002). The Sun/Pylenor transit and solar arc in the chart of Israel, which coincided with the present Intifada (and Sharon's defying or insulting visit to the Temple Mount in September 2000 is reproduced by the Sun/Pylenor axis between Bush and Israel. We can say that Israel has been Pylenorian all this time both internally (the Palestinians) and externally (George Bush).

I really doubt that George Bush is a defender of Palestinian rights, especially since he has such a weak Sun. Rather, I would put it like this:

1-) Israel "sees" Mr. Bush in the same way that it sees the Palestinians, or
2-) Israel and Bush see the Palestinians in the same way.

The 2nd option is more probable, and suggests a strong "Pylenorean" collaboration between Bush and Israel right from the start of his presidential campaign. I have said before that what the U.S. (or the Bush administration) is doing internationally is the same Israel has always done but on a larger scale. However, since things always work both (or several) ways, we also have the known fact that Israel feels that they control the White House, as evidenced, for example, in private declarations of Sharon that leaked to the Press, which suggest that Mr. Bush is "a Pylenor"  for Israel.

It is my personal opinion that the only reason why Bush has expressed criticism of Israel's new "Berlin" Wall and ilegal settlements policy in the occupied territories is "to save face". The truth, in my opinion, is that Isarel would have never gone ahead without U.S. consent, for the simple reason that Israel as we know it today would not survive without it. The hypocrisy and double standard with which the U.S. always deals with Israel has reached colossal proportions in this administration (e.g., all the many Security Council resolutions condemning Israel, keeping silent about Isreal's secret and large-scale production of nuclear weapons).

This "deal" or pact between the Bush administration and Israel is described astrologically by Sun/Pylenor. In other words: see what the attitude of the Bush Government has been (or will be, as opposed to what is officially said)) with respect to Israel and the Palestinians, and you will understand what the Sun/Pylenor axis means in this case.

Sun/Pylenor, in the Israeli-Palestinian context, has a lot to do with the expression reproduced in my last post: <<that shitty little country>>. This refers to anti-semitism, but also, quite clearly and easy to prove, to how the Israeli Government and its allies have always treated Palestinians, which are trapped in the difficult historical position of being the victim of the victim.

When speaking of "Isreal" or of "the U.S.", I am speaking of the Government and of official policies, not of the individual persons that belong to those countries. There is no need to insist on the fact that individually one cannot generalize, because this is not what is being discussed.



Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 15:59:33 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] the U.S. Israeli lobby, 3: more Pylenor

... we also have the known fact that Israel feels that they control the White House, as evidenced, for example, in private declarations of Sharon that leaked to the Press, which suggest that Mr. Bush is "a Pylenor"  for Israel.

If interested in this story, you can read it here:

Occupied Jerusalem: 3 October, 2001 (IAP) -- According to Israel radio (in Hebrew) Kol Yisrael, [Shimon] Peres warned [Ariel] Sharon Wednesday that refusing to heed incessant American requests for a cease-fire with the Palestinians would endanger Israeli interests and "turn the US against us." At this point, a furious Sharon reportedly turned toward Peres, saying "every time we do something you tell me Americans will do this and will do that. I want to tell you something very clear, don't worry about American pressure on Israel, we, the Jewish people control America, and the Americans know it." The radio said Peres and other cabinet ministers warned Sharon against saying what he said in public because "it would cause us a public relations disaster."

If we take Wednesday, Oct. 3 12h GMT as reference, a fascinating confirmation of the Pylenor connection and its suggested meaning emerges (all positions are sidereal):

Sun Oct 3 = 15,35 Virgo
natal Pylenor G.W. Bush = 15,50 Gemini

Pylenor Oct 3 = 1,41 Taurus
natal Moon A. Sharon = 1,58 Taurus

remember, this connection is as follows:

<<What we have, technically speaking, is this: the time of the Pylenor transit over Israel's Sun (2001 to 2002) and of Israel's Sun/Pylenor solar arc (1999-2000) coincides with the Bush presidential campaign (2000) and with 2 years of his mandate (2001-2002). The Sun/Pylenor transit and solar arc in the chart of Israel, which coincided with the present Intifada (and Sharon's defying or insulting visit to the Temple Mount in September 2000 is reproduced by the Sun/Pylenor axis between Bush and Israel.>>

A good testimony of the different levels of meaning of Pylenor around the phrase <<that shitty little country>> (or that shitty little people, or that shitty little person) mentioned in my last post, is offered by the statistics published recently by the United Nations:

United Nations Development Programme, "United Nations Arab Human development Report 2003"

on page 21 of this document:

<<Israel reoccupied Palestinian territories, inflicting horrifying human casualties and material destruction, thereby committing what one well-respected human rights organization called "war crimes" (Human Rights Watch, 2002). From September 2000 to April 2003, Israeli occupation forces killed 2,405 Palestinian citizens and injured 41,000 others. Most of those killed (85%) were civilians. A large proportion (20%) of them were children. UNICEF estimates that 7,000 children were injured and that 2,500 persons, of whom 500 were children, suffered permanent handicaps.>>

I haven't seen statistics of Israeli casualties as a result of the suicide bombings, which I am sure will also be important. The Pylenorian "rivers of blood" and racist spitting at each other are all the same.



Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 05:43:05 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] U.S. Israeli lobby, 4: the Pylenor connection

Let me repeat what I have written and explain better before there is more confusion.

Sharon's remarks are a testimony, a reflection, a confirmation, or whatever you want to call it, of "the Pylenor connection", not because that's my opinion, but because Astrology says so very clearly. The question is: what is this connection and what does it mean?


Israel's chart has solar arc Sun/Pylenor, direct and converse, between 1999 and 2000. It also has tr. Pylenor conjunct radix Sun in 2001-2002. I discussed the meaning of this in 2001, in a series of posts to which I have been referring:

... in which I examined also the position of Pylenor in Israel's natal chart and its previous transit over radix Jupiter in 1982:

<<Because of the empty 150 degrees in Israel's chart and the bucket pattern (from Jupiter to the Sun), the only planets transiting Pylenor has made conjunction with since 1972, apart from the conjunction to the Sun happening right now, is a conjunction with Jupiter in 1982. These 2 planets, Sun and Jupiter, in a 4-degree orb quincunx in the natal chart, are the ones that "open" and "close" the empty space and control the leading locomotive, located in the Sun, while Jupiter is of paramount importance as the handle of the whole chart.>>

The 1982 transit accurately coincides with the massacres of Sabra and Shatila, orchestrated by Sharon and perpetrated under his auspices, while the activation of 1999-2002 corresponds to the present situation, which started with Sharon's visit to the Temple Mount in September 2000, and of which I have given the official statistics published by the United Nations. Sharon is the protagonist in both cases.

You will find in my collection of posts above the conclusions I reached about Pylenor and all the pertinent data.


The Pylenor activation in Israel from 1999 to 2002 coincides in time (or, actually, includes or hovers) in the United States, with G.W. Bush presidential campaign and first 2 years of his presidency. This "coincidence" is dramatized astrologically by the fact that Bush has his radix Sun exactly over Israel's Pylenor, establishing a strong connection focused around Pylenor.

We already know what Pylenor means in the Israeli/Sharon case. What is the meaning of this connection with G.W. Bush/U.S.A.? I wrote:

<<This "deal" or pact between the Bush administration and Israel is described astrologically by Sun/Pylenor. In other words: see what the attitude of the Bush Government has been (or will be, as opposed to what is officially said)) with respect to Israel and the Palestinians, and you will understand what the Sun/Pylenor axis means in this case.>>

Concerning this point, I asserted that the level of hypocrisy shown by the U.S. (particularly since 1967) regarding Israel has reached colossal proportions under this administration. I say this without hesitation and in my opinion should be obvious to everybody. This hypocrisy, by the way, is part of the Pylenorian signature, which I have characterized as:

in my posts of 2001:

1-) Palestinians are "the Quasimodo" (Pylenor) of Israel
2-) the "rivers of blood", but also <<the "cleansing" of the blood... the catharsis that brings out humbleness>>.

and right now:

3-) anti-semitism and its reverse ( "that shitty little country", "that shitty little people"). Racist spitting.


The Sun/Pylenor connection between Bush and Israel can be seen as:

1-) Israel "sees" Mr. Bush in the same way that it sees the Palestinians, or
2-) Israel and Bush see the Palestinians in the same way.

I wrote:

<<The 2nd option is more probable, and suggests a strong "Pylenorean" collaboration between Bush and Israel right from the start of his presidential campaign. I have said before that what the U.S. (or the Bush administration) is doing internationally is the same Israel has always done but on a larger scale. However, since things always work both (or several) ways, we also have the known fact that Israel feels that they control the White House, as evidenced, for example, in private declarations of Sharon that leaked to the Press, which suggest that Mr. Bush is "a Pylenor"  for Israel.>>

About point #1 above, my post, to which you have replied with "give me a break", offers the astrological confirmation. What I (or anybody) think about the truth or falsity of Sharon's words regarding how the Israelis control America, doesn't matter. Sharon's words are very strongly related to Pylenor. Pylenor doesn't mean that "Israel controls America" (that's for each of us to decide), it means that, astrologically, both points 1 and 2 above are true.



Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 12:37:29 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] Israel and Bush: Pylenor, cont.

When Sharon uttered his words, reproduced in Israeli radio, the Sun was exactly in square with the Pylenor of George Bush, reiterating, confirming, the meaning of the Sun of G.W. Bush in conjunction with the Pylenor of Israel. The implication of this is not that Israel or Jews "control America", the implication is that Sharon thinks so, and that this way of thinking is an expression of Pylenor, particularly of Israel's Pylenor, but clearly also of Sharon (tr, Pylenor exactly conjunct his Moon).

Up to this point, there is no opinion on my part, no interpretation, just an astrological fact.

The meaning of Pylenor here is established by previously studied Pylenor manifestations with regards to Israel, and these, in turn, were interpreted in terms of what was previously found about Pylenor from empirical research. My first findings on Pylenor, previous to the examination of the case of Israel and Palestine, were based on its manifestations in the lives of individuals; when dealing with Israel, I adapted the meaning to the particular "mundane" context of Israel, which proved to be strongly related to the way it dealt with Palestinians.

Consistently, every time I have interpreted Pylenor based on the results of my empirical research, what I say is rejected in disgust by some people who assume I am just expressing my own political agenda. This rejection and disgust is a characteristic of Pylenor. The last time, was when I examined the peace demonstrations of Feb. 15th. That day, the tr. Sun was in square to tr. Pylenor; my interpretation was:

<<The issue of the chemical weapons, of the "mass murderer" has been the main argument used by the U.S. propaganda, and has been successful to a point similar to brain-washing. Nobody has ever said that Sadam Hussein is nice, he is always shown as a distorted, bad "Quasimodo" dictator, but the demonstrators were denouncing "King George" in the same ridiculing, social misfit Pylenorean terms.>>

here, one has 2 aspects of Pylenor previously found in cases of individuals, and as part of my list of keywords:

1- chemical weapons(=poison) / mass murderer
2- distorted, "bad Quasimodo", ridicule, social misfit

<<The bleeding associated with Pylenor can be seen here: with the pretension of getting rid of Saddam Hussein, the Bush war-mongers have manipulated the United Nations since the times of the Gulf War, being responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children, and have humiliated Iraq, destroying its sovereignty and forcing it to remain defenseless.>>

here, one has more Pylenorean characteristics:

1- bleeding
2- humiliation

<<The recent admonition made by the Arab representative at the U.N. Security Council, that Iraq represents no threat to the security and stability of the region, that the real threat is Israel, who posesses all the military means of mass destruction and the aggressive expansionism, is ignored.>>

here, one has the hypocrisy, mentioned in my last post.

<<One of the many Europeans and Americans who have gone to Baghdad to act as "human shields" in hope of stopping the destruction, gave an answer to a reporter evidencing an aspect of Pylenor that I found in the examination of the Israel-Palestine conflict: "I come here because my life is worth more than the life of the Iraqis, and perhaps they will think twice before they decide to kill me instead">>

in other words, Pylenor represents how Israel (to avoid more misunderstandings I have to repeat once again that I am not speaking of all Jews nor of all Israelis, but of the Israeli Government and policies) has seen and treated Palestinians, i.e., as inferiors, as unworthy. This Pylenorean characteristic is extremely clear, and extremely entrenched, in Western media and politicians. "Terrorists" are criminals, murderers, etc., but the thousands of civilians murdered or mutilated and the horror being perpetrated by those nations that are now suffering from their acts, are ignored.

This, besides the hipocrisy, is racism, and expresses another aspect of Pylenor: spitting at the other. We also have: inferiors and unworthy.

<< Everybody knows that there is a strong oil stench in all this. And the war-mongers are thirsty for blood. They do not want to hear that war is unnecessary, they do not care for the blood that will be spilled. But this is exactly what the millions of demonstrators of February 15th denounced, and forced them to hear.>>

here, one has: stench, blood ("that shitty little country", that shitty little people, that shitty little person)

Before this mention of Pylenor last February, my last notorious mention was when dealing with the Fatwa of Bin Laden in late 2001, written after I had studied the Israel/Palestinian case. I wrote:

<<... This means that the whole thing becomes "Pylenorean" in a critical and compulsive way for the US. I already developed the symbolism of Pylenor with respect to what Palestinians are to Israelis. In this case, Pylenor's blood is giving a strong testimony of what Bin Laden describes in his text: make the Americans bleed for their sins!
<<  "... the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people..." (Bin Laden's Fatwa). NOTE: Yes! Remember that Pylenor has a lot to do with humiliation...>>
<<This involvement of Pylenor is significant considering how clear its role is in the Israeli-Palestinians conflict. It is even more acute in the case of the Islam/USA relationship. When one calculates the Davison chart (4th January 1199, 16:03:09 GMT), one finds:
<<Sun = 7,40 Capricorn
<<Pylenor = 7,38 Cancer
<<We'll see if the next orbital update of Pylenor changes its position for 1199 AD, although only a small change of a few arcminutes is theoretically expected. Meanwhile, one can say calmly that the role of Pylenor here is very important and illuminating... [...]
<<Now consider the position of Pylenor in the Conference of San Remo, taking its end the 26th of April as reference: Pylenor at San Remo = 9,34 Aquarius exactly in conjunction with the Sun/Jupiter of the Fatwa.>>

here is another important aspect of Pylenor: humiliation and disgrace.

These characteristics apply at the mundane level. As a rule, the more positive characteristics of Pylenor --or of any other centaur-- will not be found in mundane astrology, only when one deals with individuals.

Now, to end this post: what is then the "pylenorean signature" in the relationship between Bush and Israel? or between Sharon and America?



Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 06:44:19 -0600
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] Israel and Bush: Pylenor, cont.

>Your analysis is very apt and makes the nature of Pylenor clear to me.

I only hope people won't get the wrong idea about Pylenor being only negative. One usually finds only negative manifestations of centaurs when examining world politics. For the good side of Pylenor one must look at how individual persons deal with it. I think this shows that politicians like Bush, or Hussein or Sharon are --usually-- not really "individuals", but essentially very sick persons.

>I see Bush's actions (not words) as having the same Pylenor effect on the U.S. population, particularly the military.  You may not be aware, for instance, that publicity regarding returning military remains has been officially banned - and the press has been informed that remains are no longer in "body bags."

I have always felt that "body bags" --for example-- are the field of Pylenor. In fact, one of my first really revealing/confirmation insights on Pylenor came when realizing this is how exactly the "Twin Peaks" story began under an exact Moon/Pylenor conjunction: the body of the girl appeared floating on the lake, inside a plastic bag.

>... the point is, your Pylenor description of Bush is accurate, but it is not limited to treatment of the "other."

I limited myself to "the other" because this was the astrological relationship/aspect being examined. I normally work with only 2 U.S. charts: for world politics and military campaigns, I use the "War" Boyd chart, while I like to use the Sibley chart in reference to the American people, the feelings and myths of people in the U.S. Using the Sibley chart to represent this, we find:

Sun of G.W. Bush (sidereal) = 19,47 Gemini
Pylenor Sibley chart = 19,01 Scorpio

This quincunx is confirming once more the "Pylenor connection", especially since the quincunx is related specifically to 8th and 6th house matters. Note also the synchronicity regarding 19 Scorpio of which there were comments in the forum these days.

In the birth chart of Bush, Pylenor is not far from the Sun:

natal Pylenor G.W. Bush = 15,50 Gemini
natal Sun G.W. Bush = 19,47 Gemini

This establishes a "Pylenor sector" of 4 degrees in his chart that goes from 15 to 19 Gemini . Anything passing through this 4-degree sector will trigger in a critical and/or immediate way his otherwise not-so-loose and significant Sun/Pylenor conjunction/incarnation in the 12th house. At the time of the WTC attack , we find:

Jupiter WTC attack = 16,50 Gemini
Varuna WTC attack = 17,11 Gemini

I have also found another conjunction that ties the "Pylenor connection" directly with Sharon, instead of just to Israel's chart:

natal Pylenor Sharon = 1,06 Aries
natal M.C. George Bush = 0,13 Aries

... which makes for a even stronger case. The recent news about how Israeli Intelligence was behind all the lies regarding Iraqi weapons of mass destruction is a confirmation of this link. It is well-known that the Mosad has established itself together with the CIA in Baghdad, sharing their headquarters inside the Baghdad Hotel.

Sharon has Pluto in 21,26 Gemini (sidereal), in exact conjunction with the Sun of the Sibley chart in 21, 42 Gemini. This is a very direct reference to his "we control America", unlike Pylenor, which does nor refer to issues of power but to issues of ridicule, feelings of inferiority/superiority, exposure, cowardice, social awkwardness, etc.

The "hidden" (12th house, 4 degrees) Sun/Pylenor conjunction in the chart of G.W. Bush is a good description of how his Sun is distorted and diminished by the relationship with his father, but also by all the secret behind-the-scenes dirty, unclean, dishonest machinations of the veteran murderers from the Reagan-Bush era that took control of the U.S. under his umbrella.



Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 10:58:58 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] "we think the price is worth it": Nessus

One of the most dramatic example of Americam foreign policy is found in the declarations made to Leslie Stall of CBS "60 Minutes", the 12th of May 1996, by the then U.S. representative in the United Nations, Madelaine Allbright, during a documentary showing the devastating effects of the sanctions on Iraqi children.

<<... it is useful to recall that on May 12th 1996, Madeleine Allbright, then American ambassador to the UN, after being asked on the programme "60 Minutes" whether the life of half a million children was "worth the price" (to get rid of the Iraqi president), answered that it was "a difficult choice, but the price...we think the price is worth it".>>

She later was appointed Secretary of State. More than 1.5 million Iraqis, 1/3 of them children, died as a direct result of this official American policy. For M. Allbright, mother of 3, and for many other American and European politicians who supported the sanctions, the children of Iraq, as well as of Afghanistan, Palestine, and other areas, are not worthy of human status. They can be sacrificed like cattle, they are treated like chickens.

Madeleine Allbright (Maria Jana Korbelova) was born May 15, 1937, in Prague, Czechoslovakia, of Jewish parents fleeing from the Nazis (her grandfather died in a concentration camp).

If I assume 8 p.m. Central as reference for the date of her declarations (2 a.m. GMT May 13th 1996):

Sun = 27,54 Aries (sidereal)
Nessus of Islam = 28,28 Aries

a direct hit. The power (Sun) and the powerless (Nessus).



Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 22:47:59 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] "we think the price is worth it": Pylenor

Let's keep in mind that Madeleine Albright's assertion regarding the death of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children being "worth the price" incarnated the Nessus of Islam, but also the Pylenor of Baghdad:

Sun May 12 1996 = 27,54 Aries
Nessus of Islam = 28,28 Aries
Pylenor of Baghdad = 28,20 Aries

The day she asserted that on television, this Nessus/Pylenor connection was repeated:

M. Albright's Nessus = 4,34 Aries (sidereal)
tr. Pylenor May 12 1996 = 4,20 Aries

Not long after that, on December 5, 1996, President Clinton appointed her as the new Secretary of State:

Sun 5 Dec 1996, 18h GMT = 19,12 Scorpio (sidereal)
Pylenor U.S.A. Sibley chart = 19,01 Scorpio

Later called pejoratively by some "Secretary of Hate", her appointment was the incarnation of the national Pylenor.

Her natal Sun, calculated for noon GMT, is in conjunction with the Sun of Israel:

Sun Israel (4 p.m. chart) = 29,39 Aries
Sun Israel (midnight chart) = 0,01Taurus
Sun M. Allbright = 0,21 Taurus (sidereal)
Mercury of Saddam Hussein = 0,24 Taurus (approx., 12h GMT)
Mercury 12 May 1996 ("the price is worth it") = 0,57 Taurus rx.

This looks like a very strong identification. Transiting Pylenor passed this point from the Spring of 2001 to the Summer of 2002, when she was no longer in the Government. This transit hovered over the time of the WTC attack on September 2001. If we take M. Albrights declarations in 1996, with the Sun (and the Nessus of Islam) conjunct the Pylenor of Baghdad in 28 Aries, then we realize that the period of "hatching" of Pylenor (and of her "the price is worth it" statement), lasted from around August 2000 to around June 2002.

If we include the Moon of Sharon (1,58 Taurus), then this "Pylenorization" of American and Israeli policy towards Iraq is extended until January or February of 2003

After Bush took office, Madeleine Allbright continued being a very strong, "hardline" supporter of military action against Iraq. One can read, for example, what she wrote in the New York Times the day after President Bush spoke to the United Nations on the Anniversary of the WTC attack, September 13, 2002, during the transit of Nessus in opposition to both G.W. Bush and the U.S. natal Suns:

Here, she repeats all the factoids furnished by Israeli Intelligence that were the basis of Bush's speech and the excuse for the sanctions and later the war. I believe these lies, this utter dishonesty and cold-blooded hypocrisy shown not only by Bush (father and Sun) but also by Clinton, is related to Pylenor.

When the war started (20 March 2003), the Sun was exactly over the Moon of M. Albright's "the price is worth it" declarations of 1996, establishing a strong link or compatibility (it must be said however, that even though she strongly wanted the war, she publicly condemned doing it unilaterally):

Moon May 12 1996 = around 4,45 Pisces
Sun invasion of Iraq 2003 = 4,17 Pisces



Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 21:48:25 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] Maybe this contest is needed: Pylenor

In my site you will find some positive Pylenor keywords, and also examples of Pylenorean people that have nothing to do with what I have been describing here about current world politics.

If interested, you can read:

I used this material back in 1999 to suggest the name "Pylenor" and to extract the keywords. You can read how I developed the ideas here:

The tentative keywords are here:

since "dirty", "sordid", "inmoral" have been mentioned, let me emphasize here others that don't have that connotation:


These, by the way, is what I think is behind a member of this forum consistent sharing of his thoughts and feelings with us, and the joke about blowjobs that evolved from it, which was synchronistic with the ghost of anti-semitism and all the Pylenor stuff I mentioned. We were seeing in the forum the two sides of Pylenor simultaneously, the collective, more negative side together with the individualized, more evolved, good-hearted but very painful, the beauty-of-Quasimodo side.

I don't know if *** was aware of this when he took part in the joke and mentioned "the American Pylenor", but I am sure the trend initiated by Nicolas' efforts to heal himself and cry for help (and all that followed) can be traced to the transiting Sun, and, particularly, the Black Moon, passing through "the Pylenor sector" of the U.S.A (Sibley) chart(s)



Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 23:04:57 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] Maybe this contest is needed: Pylenor, 2

Transiting Black Moon crosses the U.S. Boyd Pylenor in 9,15 Scorpio (sidereal, square Cyllarus in 9,35 Leo):

first time = 27 Nov 1998
last time = 3 Dec 1999

first time = 5 June 2003
last time = 15 May 2004
this time = 8 Dec 2003! (tr. Sun 26 Nov.)

Transiting Black Moon crosses the U.S. Sibley Pylenor in 19,01 Scorpio (sidereal):

first time = 3 June 1999
last time = 12 May 2000

first time = 14 Nov 2003 ==> here (14/15 Nov.) square the Mars/Jupiter opposition in 18 Aquarius/20 Leo sidereal), and Venus conjunct in 19 Scorpio.
last time = 20 Nov 2004
this time = 11 Dec 2003! (tr. Sun 6 Dec )

QUESTION: What is the most famous blowjob in the political history of the United States, which also produced one of the most hypocritical and humiliating political circus?



Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 07:42:34 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] Maybe this contest is needed: Pylenor, 3

I would like to examine this case and see what I find. First, I need a timeline/chronology, such as:

Then, I need the charts of:

Bill: August 19, 1946 - 14:41 GMT - 93w36/33n40
Monica: July 23, 1973 - 19:21 GMT - 122w25/37n47
Hillary: October 26, 1947 - Chicago (no time, will use 8 p.m. CST)

In this case, we can use the angles because the time of birth is recorded. Immediatly, we find (all positions are sidereal):

Monica Ascendant = 21,17 Virgo
Monica Pylenor = 20,20 Virgo

Clinton Venus = 17,05 Virgo
Clinton Pylenor = 17,53 Gemini
Hillary Neptune = 17,22 Virgo

Hillary Pylenor = 22,05 Gemini
U.S. Boyd/Noel Sun = 22,55 Gemini
U.S. Sibley Sun = 21,42 Gemini

Note how close Hillary's Pylenor is to the Venus/M.C conjunction of Monica:

Monica M.C. = 23,22 Gemini
Monica Venus = 24,39 Gemini
Hillary Black Moon = 23,48 Sagittarius

Jan. 17, 1998: Mr. Clinton testifies in Jones' lawsuit and denies a sexual relationship with Lewinsky (tr. Pylenor = 8,25 Aries) Jan. 26, 1998: Mr. Clinton declares publicly, "I did not have sexual relations with that woman. ... I never told anybody to lie."  (tr. Pylenor = 8,42 Aries). Sun Hillary Clinton = approx. 8,48 Libra

Aug. 17, 1998: Mr. Clinton undergoes more than four hours of questioning before the grand jury. He then says in a televised speech, "I did have a relationship with Lewinsky that was not appropriate. ... It constituted a critical lapse in judgment and a personal failure on my part for which I am solely and completely responsible."  (tr. Pylenor = 18,20 Aries)

Monica has the Moon in 14,38 Aries, so Pylenor that year was transiting over it. (tr. Pylenor conjunct natal Moon Monica: from May 1998 to around February 2000).

(will continue)



Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 13:35:52 -0600
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] Maybe this contest is needed: Pylenor, 3

... for the record, I am not interested in analyzing the psychological dynamics of the Clinton/Lewinsky relationship, and am using the concept of "blowjob" only as a joke. I am talking of the political circus and the humiliation, which came many months after their mutual contact/relationship had expired, a circus which, in my opinion, has nothing to do with sex *directly*. Here sex is only a facade.

From my Latin American perspective, where this type of conduct in a President would have never been of any interest nor to the Press nor to anyone besides very vulgar gossip, it is clear that what was at stake had nothing to do with sex per se, but with the desire to cause harm and humiliation to the President by his political enemies. "The "affair", to me, is a reference to the stupid circus of 1998-99, and not to the actual relationship between Clinton and Monica.

In other words, I am talking of Pylenor not in relation to their attitude toward sex, adultery, misconduct, etc., but in relationship to the circus built around it. (I have pending commenting on your ideas about Nessus and sex/abuse)

Methodologically, I am including Hillary's chart above everyone else that was also involved for 2 reasons:

1-) The chart of the spouse is always a good indicator of what is happening to the other spouse. This is because the equal-to equal, mirror-image or horizontal nature of the marriage relationship, as opposed to that of the child (Chelsea) which is an offspring and in a vertical position.

2-) Hillary is very much, like her husband, a public figure and a symbol. Her public stature as symbol is very strong, and it became stronger as a consequence of the scandal. In my opinion, as the First Lady, wife, and mother, her silent symbolic position in the story was stronger than anybody else's besides Monica and Clinton.

Plus a third reason, more personal, but which probably reflects the feelings of many others: during all the humiliating and sordid media exposure, I always had her in mind. She was always spiritually present, more alive than Monica. While Chelsea remained "loyal", seemingly unconditional, accompanying her father in public appearances, her mother was silent, keeping up her dignity and character, living up to the symbol she is. The Pylenorean ordeal was very much hers.



Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 08:12:15 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] Maybe this contest is needed: Pylenor, 4

Regarding Monica:

Transiting Pylenor is in conjunction with the natal Moon of Lewinsky during the process, starting May 1998. Some key dates:

Dec. 19, 1998: Clinton impeached by the House on articles I and III, perjury and obstruction of justice.
Monica Moon = 14,38 Aries (sidereal)
tr. Pylenor =  14,07 Aries

Feb. 8, 1999: House managers and White House lawyers present closing arguments.
Monica Moon = 14,38 Aries (sidereal)
tr. Pylenor =  14,02 Aries

With Pylenor exactly conjunct her natal Ascendant, and transiting Pylenor exactly conjunct her natal Moon, we can say that the "Monica Lewinsky" picture in the public imagination (a result of the media coverage) is "Moon/Pylenor", the "Pylenor girl" --whatever that means.

Regarding Hillary:

Jan. 7, 1999: Impeachment trial begins in Senate. Chief Justice William Rehnquist sworn in to preside. He swears in the 100 senators as jurors.
tr. Sun (using 12h CST) = 22,16 Sagittarius
Hillary Pylenor (and U.S. Sun) = 22,05 Gemini

Feb. 1-3: Lewinsky, Jordan and Blumenthal deposed by House managers and lawyers for the president.
Feb. 4: Senate votes to allow showing that videotaped testimony during the trial. Senators reject calling live witnesses.
tr. Neptune Feb 1 = 7,31 Capricorn
tr. Mars Feb 1 = 7,44 Libra (recall Clinton's natal exact Mars/Neptune)
tr. Mars Feb 4 = 8,51 Libra
Hillary Sun = 8,48 Libra

This ties directly with the time of Clinton's public lying ("I did not have sexual relations with that woman. ... I never told anybody to lie."), when transiting Pylenor was in 8,42 Aries.

The impeachment trial was the "empowerment" or "glorification", the "shining through" (solar opposition) of Hillary's Pylenor, something which is strongly re-enforced by Hillary's Pylenor being exactly conjunct the U.S. Sun, while the time of the testimonies was for Hillary a Mars/Sun/Pylenor, or Mars/Pylenor experience related to the lies his husband said about his sex life in front of the whole nation. At that time, though not part of the trial, Hillary was put in front of everybody; she was, in a way, raped.

As to the Clinton/Monica actual sexual relationship, something which, apparently, is Pylenorean: I don't want to go into the sexual dynamics of Pylenor here, or of what is "improper" or not, although it is apparent (remember the Venus/Pylenor exact square in Clinton, the Venus/Pylenor exact conjunction in Michael Jackson -- see my post of 13 Jan 2000), what I had commented in my examination of Bruckner:

<<Pylenor may be part of his piety, his peasant origins, crude manners, complete awkwardness when dealing with women, and of course his inclination at old age towards very young girls... Pylenor charts his crudeness when he tried to socialize with them, his incapacity to establish the "age limits" required by acceptable morality.
But it must be said that he was a man of strong religious principles and he never engaged in any before-marriage physical relationship. He was rejected by all the women he proposed throughout his life, due to his rude simplicity>>

Pylenor's sexual inclinations is something that deserves attention (e.g. Michael Jackson). Eric Francis has already introduced some perspective and lines of thought... but this is another story to me for the moment.



Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:12:18 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] (Pylenor and Blowjobs)

I've never seen Pylenor in terms of orbital symbolism, however, I always saw it as very Saturnian. I am aware it gets closer to Uranus than to Saturn, but maybe is the inversion the way it works...

Personally, I don't think Pylenor "breaks" in an Uranian way. For example: I feel Pylenor is "loosing your hair", getting bald., which is a deterioration rather than a "break". The collapse of a building or of any other structure, per se, is not Pylenor, but rather the deterioration or corruption, the gangrene, that eventually will result in a collapse.

You point to a very important aspect of Pylenor, which is the cleansing, the washing of the wound, the purification. This "purity" is expressed in sainthood, monasticism, and a particular kind of Christian mysticism. It is also very evident in Paramhansa Yogananda, who had a very exact Moon/Pylenor conjunction near the Ascendant in the 12th. Another example of this "purity" (in the clinical sense, rather than in terms of primordial innocence as in Hylonome) is the actress Jodie Foster, also with an exact Moon/Pylenor conjunction. I think her more emblematic roles, and even her facial features, reflect a creative side of Pylenor.

My perspective is that the duality of victim and victimizer disappears in centaur territory. It is society that puts people in an either/or situation, and sees unclean-ness and moral contraventions instead of understanding the dynamics involved. I think in astrological-centaurean terms there are no culprits, it is not a matter of accountability, nor of what is "proper" or "improper". Everybody is victim and culprit.



Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 05:13:55 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] Pylenor and racism

I was reading today a few notes I gathered a "long time ago" (29-30 June 1999) on Rodney King and the L.A. Riots, and found a very prominent Pylenor to which I had not paid enough attention before.

(NOTE: regarding the possible or expected role of Pylenor, keep in mind the present discussion about Robert Kilroy-Silk; from Mumtaz' data: birth Sun = 27,52 Taurus (approx.) / tr. Pylenor 2003 article = 28,19 Taurus)

The relevant dates and times are given in the above reference. "M.L.K." is Martin Lurther King:

M.L.K. natal Moon = 19,14 Pisces (or very near)
M.L.K. natal Mars = 21,54 Gemini

When he was shot (4/4/1968), precession-corrected:

M.L.K. death Pylenor = 19,34 Virgo (note exact opposition to the Moon)
M.L.K. death Pluto = 20,23 Virgo

When Rodney King was beaten Pylenor was in 21,42 Pisces. The L.A. riots began late in the afternoon and early in the evening of April 29, 1992. There was a Moon/Pylenor conjunction that morning (the gestation period when the Jury announced its decision) -- the time of the exact conjunction was 10h24 a.m. PST.

Using the collected notes (posted a month ago in this forum), I extract the following words on Pylenor:

- hypocrisy, double standard
- that "shitty" people, or person
- racist spitting at each other
- rivers of blood, murder, bleeding
- the "cleansing" of the blood
- the catharsis that brings out humbleness
- reaction of disgust and rejection
- ridicule, humiliation, disgrace, exposure
- misfit, inferior, unworthy
- cowardice, awkwardness
- dirty, unclean, dishonest

I emphasize, again, that these words are only negative because such is the nature of the events being examined, and that there are clearly positive characteristics of Pylenor as well, usually easier to find at the individual level.



Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 00:06:05 -0600
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] Re: Pylenor and racism

[about Robert Kilroy-Smith's article]:

The way I see it, Pylenor here is the reaction, "the issue" provoked by this man's article or words in front of the camera. At least that is what the Astrology says. It seems to be what Diana Shaw described as <<"craven sleeze"... "being caught in a disgusting viscous slime - you just want to get it off you!">>

Here, the slime is prejudice and racism. I agree with Roy McKinnon that the issue is very complex, so Pylenor really expresses only one aspect of it. But what is this "Pylenor aspect" of racial prejudice?

... Obviously, Pylenor does not say anything about how its is managed or how we deal with it. Usually, the worst way of managing anything is the road taken by the media, which will create a circus (or a circle) of humiliation and public exposure with a lot taken out of context. I believe it is at the individual level where we sometimes --or often-- see the creative ways in which the Pylenorean signature can be dealt with...

... especially when it is in aligned with the Sun as in this case, the Sun being our unconditional integrity and wholeness, so we can witness really heroic and beautiful ways of dealing with the planet that is in conjunction with it. What would be a heroic or beautiful way of dealing with Pylenor?

The figure of the hunchback Quasimodo comes here. Behind the treatment he received from people, was the fear he inspired. In terms of Pylenor, rather than fear of what is alien, I would say fear of what is "ugly", sick, or deformed. This is why I once mentioned that Pylenor represents doctors and nurses at a hospital, but probably more nurses; they represent one dimension of the "clinical" aspect of Pylenor. People who wash other person's wounds, out of compassion and the ability to face what is ugly in all of us.

Racial prejudice, as well as poverty, sickness, deformity, etc., are "ugly", but...

Part of this ugliness is our social/class prejudices and our hypocrisy and fundamental dishonesty. We try to hide those ugly aspects, lying to ourselves and to others. This is why "nakedness" is another aspect of Pylenor. When we stand naked, we have nothing to hide. This is, also, humbleness and humility.

Crude honesty in face of our ugliness and fears is what makes the change or starts the healing. It is our "confession", the contrition, our "Pater, pecavi!". In Catholic Mass we say: "
Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed"(*). Then comes the particularly Pylenorean Christian mysticism.

This is repeated three times. To me, it has always been powerful and magic, since my childhood. This phrase contains --in my opinion-- the essence of Christian feeling and ethics. Unfortunately this is only said once in the new liturgy. The classic text in English and Latin is here: <<Lord,  I am not worthy that Thou shouldst enter under my roof;  but only say the word, and my soul shall be healed.>>. In Latin <<Domine,  non sum dignus ut intres sub tectum meum:  sed tantum dic verbo,  et sanabitur anima mea.>>. This, I think, is what Pylenor intimately says to himself, in his soul. It is the image of the bleeding centaur washing his wound in the river.


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