Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:04:16 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] UN and Iraq: TD10

 >Sun UN (1945) = 7,09 Libra
 >TD10 Kingdom of Iraq = 6,56 Libra

also

TL66 1st UN food shipment arrives at Iraq (20/03/1997) = 7,55 Aries
TD10 "Coalition" invasion of Iraq (20/03/2003) = 6,30 Aries

I had this in my notes, as part of a comment that I never posted weeks ago. Today I would like to make some reflections on it, concentrating only on these 2 planets. The "UN (1945)" is the chart for the United Nations, Oct 24 1945, 4:50 p.m. EST. (this is the time when its charter was ratified, its "entry into force"). The "Kingdon of Iraq" is the very well-timed chart of the Iraqi nation (as used, for example, by Noel Tyl: Aug 23 1921, 6 a.m. Baghdad), in contrast to other charts in current use that represent a specific political regime only. The positions are sidereal.

1-) The United Nations incarnates, makes central the TD10 of the nation of Iraq. This Sun/TD10 focus controls the UN/Iraq relationship. One can say superficially that Iraq "represents TD10" to the United Nations; but since TD10 is in the Iraq chart and not in the UN chart, it also works the other way: the United Nations is, for Iraq, the incarnation of its TD10.

2-) What this means can be observed at the time of the transiting TD10 opposition. This opposition is the time when the potential of the conjunction is fully developed and mature, when it "blossoms" or becomes objectified in external circumstances. This maturity has been reached right now, with the present American and British invasion and military occupation of Iraq.

3-) What can be learned about TD10 from this? Obviusly, TD10 is not even close to being anything "nice". I already have written in abundance on my view of what the U.N. has done in Iraq. I will summarize it very briefly here:

a-) violation and destruction of Iraq's sovereignty.
b-) destruction of Iraq's civil infrastructure
c-) large-scale, massive genocide of Iraqi civilians (through "sanctions")

4-) One aspect of the Sun/TD10 relationship that became apparent in my examination of the conference of San Remo was:

    http://www.expreso.co.cr/centaurs/posts/mundane/sanremo.html

<<... represents the connection with a "sacred" foundational space, with the origins, with a line in time that extends in great depth into the past, into the cosmic reason to exist, on to God himself.
<<Sun/TD10 has to do with the father... The sdo mark of Sun/TD10 is cosmic, hence the religious aspect, the relationship with God as father, and also the tragedy, the death, the oppression, the fight for having a right to exist, the having been born in terror.
<<Sun/TD10 must fight against oppression and death... TD10 doesn't want the Sun to exist, doesn't want it to have individuality, it wants to suppress it. The result is an inner division that is fundamental, stemming from the roots, part of the justification to exist.>>

The religious aspect is evident in the fundamentalism and "omnipotent" authoritarianism that characterize the 3 paternalistic religions that converge in this area of the world, and which is seen rampant in the attitudes and feelings of politicians on all sides.

On can think, for example, on the U.N. "playing God", or "playing daddy". This has meant the destruction of Iraq as a nation, which began with the Gulf War of 1991. This is one aspect of Sun/TD10 that is also present in the Palestine/Israel relationship, made very evident today with the Isaeli decision regarding Arafat.

Remember how TD10 is related to the death of children. "Children" is logically the other side of the coin about "playing father". Both in the case of the UN with Iraq and of Israel with Palestine, this "playing" has meant destruction and death "to the children" on both sides.

The role of TL66 in all this is also very clear. There is no need to repeat the aspects and positions here -- I have mentioned the relevant aspects many times already-- aspects with the foundation chart of Baghdad and with the chart of Islam.

The astrological relevance of the chart of Islam should be obvious. After the Soviet Union collapsed, and coincident with the discovery of centaurs and transneptunians, "Islamic terrorism" has become the scapegoat of politicians and the media worldwide.

It is interesting that Islam was born during an exact TL66/TD10 conjunction. I have mentioned this several times before (they will be in conjunction again in 2005). The "evil", hypocritical and destructive side of the United Nations Security Council, which has become --in my opinion-- dramatically evident in the cases of Iraq, Palestine, and Chechnya, is related to these 2 planets, and to the fact that this has come as a result of a confrontation with "Islamic terrorism", a label which is used to hide "the evil inside" -- the shadow, the "guardian at the threshold", the fact that this "terrorism" has been their (our) own creation.

Juan

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Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 08:15:34 -0600
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] UN and Iraq: TD10

>- violation and destruction of sovereignty.
>- destruction of (infra)structure
>- large-scale, massive genocide
>- fundamentalism, omnipotent authoritarianism
>- "playing God", or "playing daddy".
>- destruction and death to the children

These are then characteristics of Sun/TD10. If we are able to distinguish the nature of the Sun here, we will have a good idea of the tendency described by TD10 alone. Another way of putting it is: this is what TD10 does to the Sun.

One intuition in this regard, arising from the orbital symbolism: the orbital gesture of TD10, including its very small inclination of 6 degrees (very small in transneptunian and centaurean terms), which suggests fixicity, but especially its control by Saturn and its very intrusive "cosmic" nature, resembles very much the Jehova or "Yahve" of the Old Testament. Considering the above descriptions and:

1-) His omnipotent, authoritarian paternalism
2-) His rigor and his sense of punishment
3-) His direct intervention in human history
4-) His antiquity, our spiritual and cultural roots

All this is reflected in modern political attitudes. All 3 religions (Islam, Judaism, Christianity), in many ways share the same characteristics in terms of their God.

This resemblance may very well give us clues about the positive meaning of TD10, such as, for example, in the Book of Job.

In this regard, TL66 is different, and as I suggested earlier carries the "salvation" and the "celestial" connotations --together with other sdo's like CZ118 and CF119-- "the Alfa and the Omega" of the Book of Revelation. I don't feel TD10 has this quality. It is more Saturnian and "earthy", in concordance with the original "JHVH" tradition of the Book of Genesis, the Adam that was born out of the dust... in contradistinction with the later "Elohim" tradition.

Like the Book of Genesis, TD10 carries us unto a deeply rooted spiritual patriarchal past. This included is the image of the "rock formations", something about spiritual roots, or more accurately, of the Book of Genesis. I would like also to repeat the words suggested once by Jonathan Dunn for TD10:

"amalgamation", "agglomeration", "consolidation"

Which together with "rock formation" point to the positive side of TD10.

All the planets have an "evil" and a good side, and I have suggested in the past that the evil side is usually more easily observed or more obvious, especially on the mundane level, while individually the good side has more chances of surfacing. But TD10 gives a sense of "evil" that I don't see in other centaurs or sdo's, something which I related in past posts to "the guardian at the threshold", to "the enemy inside", to an Angel of Death... More precisely, it may be that Sun/TD10 is the portrait of Dorian Gray.

Have any of you seen the movie "The Keep" (1983), directed by Michael Mann with music of Tangerine Dream? or have you read the original novel of the same name by Paul Wilson?

Juan

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Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:03:48 -0600
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] The Keep/Juan

I saw "The Keep" on cable many years ago, but it has never been showed again. From what I read in the Internet, from film critics and the author of the original book himself, the movie was a horrendous failure. However, I liked it. It is one of the strangest films I have seen.

Not long after I saw the movie, I found the LP by Tangerine Dream with the music of "The Keep". It is called "Logos", but that LP is from a concert where only a small portion of the soundtrack was played.

I may try later to discuss the movie and why I feel it contains all those TD10 motives. Here is a good review with some VHS vidcaps from the movie:

   http://www.stomptokyo.com/otf/Keep/Keep.htm

The original book by F. Paul Wilson is consistently mentioned as one of the best horror stories ever written. Paul Wilson was born May 17, 1946

   http://www.siue.edu/~kcole/f.paul/bio.html

Using 12h U.T:

   Mercury = 10,27 Taurus
   TD10 = 9,49 Scorpio

Anybody has thought of a possible name for TD10?

Juan

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Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:26:50 -0600
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] TD 10 & Riyal archives/Juan

[...]

I hope someday I am in the mood to explain why I think the movie (I haven't read the book) is related to TD10. Essentially, the movie has:

-- the ancient connotations, the battle of good vs evil
-- the Jew / Nazi relationship
-- the anti-fascist German soldier / Nazi relationship
-- the Nazi / monster relationship
-- the dying father / daughter relationship
-- the ancient guardian-warrior / monster relationship
-- the image of The Keep, the Fortress itself

One of the great moments of the film, that struck me the first time and struck me again yesterday, is when the Gestapo Commander, in desperation and terror, asks the creature: "What are you? Where do you come from?" And the creature answers: "I come... from you!". And proceeds to pulverize him. This is the figure of The Double (Sun/TD10).

Juan

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Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 20:40:29 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] 1999TD10: Demi Moore

Robert von Heeren's VIP database shows actress Demi Moore as a TD10 incarnation:

b.11.11.1962 (this date is also in the imdb).
Roswell, New Mexico
14h16m + 7h

Moon = 18,33 Taurus
Sun = 19,00 Scorpio
TD10 = 19,44 Scorpio
Venus = 20,33 Scorpio Rx.

This case is similar to Sain Saens: TD10 stands between a close Sun/Venus conjunction, it is "hidden" inside Sun/Venus. The difference is that Venus is in inferior conjunction (Rx) here, and the Moon is part of the configuration.

Nothing like "The E! True Hollywwood Story" for this:

from http://www.eonline.com/On/Holly/Shows/Moore/Facts/index.html

She is not an alien...despite being born in Roswell, New Mexico, the purported site of a 1947 UFO crash.
Her beauty is in the eye of the beholder--or the surgeon. Moore suffered chronic kidney trouble from birth, and she wore an eye patch to help correct a lazy eye. Later in life, she reportedly worked out like crazy and had multiple plastic surgeries to keep her butt tight and her breasts perky.
She's a child of divorce. And divorce. Her family moved more than 30 times as stepfather Danny Guynes chased a series of get-rich-quick schemes. In June 1973, her drunken, bickering parents divorced, but then they remarried a few months later. They divorced again two years later, when Guynes abandoned the family. He later committed suicide.
She had a "Luke I am your father" moment. For much of her childhood, she thought that Danny Guynes was her father. Then she found some papers among her mother's things that confirmed that her real father was an Air Force man named Charles Harmon. She met him when she was 13 but had no desire to have a relationship with him.
She takes direction well. When she showed up a little out of it on the set of St. Elmo's Fire, director Joel Schumacher told her to get clean and sober--or get out. She went through a rehab program and went back to work.
She had a hard time picking out Mother's Day cards. Her relationship with her mom broke down after her mother began selling tales of Demi's wild past to the highest bidders. Things got worse in the spring of 1993 when her mother posed nude for High Society magazine. But mother and daughter reconciled in 1998, when Moore cared for her mother as she lay dying of brain cancer.
She knows how to attract attention. In the summer of 1991, a photo of her naked, very pregnant body on the cover of Vanity Fair caused such a stir that some vendors refused to carry the magazine. A few years later, she again appeared nude on the cover, this time with a man's suit painted onto her body.
She's a control freak. While promoting Indecent Proposal, she asked to be given veto power over any photos of her before they were published. The press rejected the idea and labeled her a prima donna.
Between 1993 and 1996, she made Indecent Proposal, Disclosure , The Scarlet Letter and Striptease, about sex for money, sexual harassment, adultery and naked dancin', respectively.

Juan

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Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 07:44:42 -0600
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] 1999TD10: Demi Moore
b.11.11.1962. 14h16m + 7h
Moon = 18,33 Taurus
Sun = 19,00 Scorpio
TD10 = 19,44 Scorpio
Venus = 20,33 Scorpio Rx.
So, what has TD10 "done" to the Sun/Venus conjunction and the Moon here?

for keywords, see http://www.expreso.co.cr/centaurs/keywords.html

Let's consider her upbringing:
Moore suffered chronic kidney trouble from birth, and she wore an eye patch to help correct a lazy eye. Later in life, she reportedly worked out like crazy and had multiple plastic surgeries to keep her butt tight and her breasts perky.
Her family moved more than 30 times as stepfather Danny Guynes chased a series of get-rich-quick schemes. In June 1973, her drunken, bickering parents divorced, but then they remarried a few months later. They divorced again two years later, when Guynes abandoned the family. He later committed suicide.
For much of her childhood, she thought that Danny Guynes was her father. Then she found some papers among her mother's things that confirmed that her real father was an Air Force man named Charles Harmon. She met him when she was 13 but had no desire to have a relationship with him
.
There is a very strong issue with the father here (the Sun)...

How was all this reflected in her character? Is this a "pure" Sun/Venus conjunction opposing the Moon? Isn't it evident here the strong alienating, dissociative force of TD10? Isn't this a stigmatized, lonely and painful childhood?
She takes direction well. When she showed up a little out of it on the set of St. Elmo's Fire, director Joel Schumacher told her to get clean and sober--or get out. She went through a rehab program and went back to work.
This "direction" shows the integrative desire of Sun/Venus, and also the sought-for father image or father guidance.
Her relationship with her mom broke down after her mother began selling tales of Demi's wild past to the highest bidders. Things got worse in the spring of 1993 when her mother posed nude for High Society magazine. But mother and daughter reconciled in 1998, when Moore cared for her mother as she lay dying of brain cancer.
This shows a mother that was never a real mother, a dramatic illustration of TD10 acting over her Sun/Moon, father/mother figures. I wonder what or how all this shows in her character at present.
In the summer of 1991, a photo of her naked, very pregnant body on the cover of Vanity Fair caused such a stir that some vendors refused to carry the magazine. A few years later, she again appeared nude on the cover, this time with a man's suit painted onto her body.
While promoting Indecent Proposal, she asked to be given veto power over any photos of her before they were published. The press rejected the idea and labeled her a prima donna.
Between 1993 and 1996, she made Indecent Proposal, Disclosure , The Scarlet Letter and Striptease, about sex for money, sexual harassment, adultery and naked dancin', respectively
.
I see a reaction to all the Sun/Venus and Moon "lacks". We can imagine TD10 standing in between and negating them, and the way she strives to achieve their integration by going to extremes.

A lot of Sun/Venus glamour that is sought and desired, with the Moon as "the public eye", but "forced" or "blocked" by TD10. TD10 is here like a sort of Melquizedek, who was born "old". It is a childhood with grooves, a childhood that never was.

Juan

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Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 08:06:02 -0600
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] Gaiman
Sun       19 Scorpio
1999 TD10 19 Scorpio
following is an extract from the links provided in the post by Jonathan Dunn, with some brief comments
http://ephemeral.info/sl/221.html -- (CNN)
1- <<Morpheus, the King of Dreams, and his six siblings, collectively known as the Endless>>
2- <<The Sandman: Endless Nights>>

comment: "dreams", "endless", "nights", are paradigmatic transneptunian associations, but particularly scattered disk object associations. sdo's are full of disturbing "nightly" dynamism. In this they are like the "winged" (high eccentricity) centaurs. The word "night", more human or normalized, is centaurean, while the expression "endless night" brings the dynamism ("endless") of the scattered disk objects. The image of "the sandman" suggests time or eternity, endlessness, but particularly the idea of rhythm, the "waves of time", the eternal return, the mythical motion from timelessness to the present era (from the scattered disk to Saturn). The saturnian quality of TD10 is seen in the image of "sand" (transeptunian) united with "man" (saturnian).
http://www.dyve.net/sandman/intro.html
3- <<seven beings that are not Gods,
4- <<existed before humanity dreamed of Gods,
5- <<that will exist after the last God is dead.

comment: Another paradigmatic transneptunian association. Recall the strong association of Sun/TD10 with "God", in particular a very personal "God" like in the Old Testament, and a God that "appears" in History.

6- <<seven beings that are called the Endless. Destiny, Death, Dream, Destruction, Desire and Despair, and Delirium, who was once Delight.>>

comment: These could be names for transneptunian bodies. Please check these words with some of my keywords for TD10:

...oppression, death, depth, terror, cross, stigma, indestructible...

    http://www.expreso.co.cr/centaurs/keywords.html

7- <<captured in 1916 by an occult group, and held prisoner until he escapes in 1988. The consequences of his imprisonment become...>>

comment: This is the dynamics of TD10. "captured by an occult group" is the sdo "take away" (see my posts on Mary Shelley and Frankenstein), when the object leaves the human world. The "imprisonment" is similar to the idea of "The Wall" --signified by TD10, and also contains the following keywords from my list (ref. above):

... alienation, emptiness, nihilism, desolation, neglect...

8- <<to take us away to worlds that never existed, in the company of people we wish we were... or thank God we aren't.>>

comment: This is a description by Stephen King. See how he uses the expression "take away to worlds that never existed". Of course these worlds do exist inside the imagination, they are very real, though perhaps unfathomable.

9- <<the male/female dichotomy, male/female friction and the difference in men's and womens's outlooks on the world.

comment: This is more lunar, it doesn't seem to be related to the Sun/TD10 conjunction, although one can easily argue that the whole transneptunian world, as well as Neptune itself, is archetypally feminine (NOTE: the all-encompassing femininity of Neptune is a good illustration of the bankruptcy of name and mythological "literalism" to explain astrological symbolism).

10- <<Death is a million times more sensible than Dream himself.>>

comment: Death and dreaming have always been brothers (or sisters?). When we dream, we are "far away", in another world. Another paradigmatic transneptunian association.

NOTE: by "paradigmatic" I mean "exemplary illustration of orbital symbolism".

11- <<imaginative and transfixing / radical / eerie, loopy, sometimes desolating / capricious, ill-starred gods and frail humans>>

comment: These words are descriptions of TD10. The "ill-starred gods and frail humans" is the centaurean nature of TD10.

12- <<making Death, at long last, something to die for.>>. <<all its horrors, and all its hopes, are only as profound and familiar as the human heart itself.>>

comment: the centaurean part of TD10: bringing death closer to us, making it more human (see my "Pluto is Changing its Skin").

13- <<otherworldly / disturbing>>

comment: sdo's...

14- <<fresh with the resonance of timeless myths."

comment: "timelessness" is an sdo association. At perihel, an sdo like TD10 doesn't move, time is standing still.

Juan

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Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:13:59 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] Lovecraft

The case of Lovecraft has been brought to the forum in the past. On 13 Feb 2000, "Polaris" or " Yael Dragwyla"... Yael also gave the following url as reference to the birth time of Lovecraft:

    http://www.hplovecraft.com/life/biograph.htm

My discussions of these charts (including Lovecraft, Crowley, S. King, Dali) is found in:

    http://www.expreso.co.cr/centaurs/posts/notes/miscellanea.html
   
http://www.expreso.co.cr/centaurs/posts/notes/asbolusnotes.html

At that time, I had not studied TD10. On Lovecraft, based on Yael's data, my comment was (ref. "miscellanea"):

<<TO66 = 21,03 Libra
<<Moon = 22,07 Libra
<<Iris = 22,19 Libra
<<XS35 = 22,36 Libra
<<TD10 = 23,11 Libra

<<In my opinion the "underworld" is the territory of the trans-Neptunian planets. I propose that TO66 (period=288 yrs) and TD10 (period=1024 years) are the main reason for Lovecraft's obsession with terror and mystery, and not the centaurs. XS35, if correct and not changed by future orbit modifications, gives a good description by his being "visited" by the source of his inspiration (the terror or ghost-presence that comes and goes), while Iris may be his refined artistic or literary imagination.>>

Today, I would put aside XS35 and ascribe what I said about the "visitation" to TD10. The concept of "visitation from another world" (dreams, aliens, gods, terrors, etc.) is expression of the orbital dynamics of objects like TD10. Orbitally, the centaurs are all "diminished" versions of TD10.

Juan



 
 
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