Message: 14
   Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 22:48:11 -0600
   From: jar@xxxxxxx.xx.xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx)
Subject: Political predators

Joseph McCarthy was born Nov.14, 1908, and died May 2, 1957. I always felt he was a very good centaurean candidate, but the planets at birth, without a birth time and without the Moon, didn't seem to show anything convincing to me. However, if I take a look at the positions at death, the signature emerges clearly:

Sun at birth (12 GMT) = 21,44 Scorpio
Nessus at death = 20,59 Taurus
Sun at death = 11,08 Taurus
1994TA at birth = 11,28 Scorpio.

I believe that these aspects put in evidence the meaning of both centaurs in terms of politics. Sun/1994TA, as I mentioned in the chart of the Czarina Alexandra, is a "Rasputian" aspect.

Now, many will hate me for the second example of a political predator I'm going to give; just keep in mind that I'm talking from a Central-American perspective. He is not dead yet, and he is responsible, according to the Britannica, for launching "the largest peacetime military buildup in American History": Ronald Reagan, born Feb.6, 1911.

Ronald Reagan is responsible for one of the most aggressive and abusive policies toward the region of Central America that was the direct cause of war, murder and hunger in Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, and Nicaragua, and terrorist murders and cover-ups in Costa Rica not seen before in recent history. Here are positions for Ronald Reagan, from the birth data from R. Nolle (1:20 a.m.)

Moon = 12,01 Taurus
N. Node = 14,19 Taurus

in opposition to:

Jupiter = 13,44 Scorpio
Pholus = 14,38 Scorpio

and making the T-square:

Sun = 16,24 Aquarius
QM107 = 17,40 Aquarius.

My feeling is that the conjunction with QM107 may not be that bad, while the Jupiter involvement seems to fit the political and economic magnitudes involved. I think that relationships like this talk by themselves and illuminate the aggressive and destructive nature of these centaurs when are expressed in primitive ways. One can think of the charismatic actor-cowboy so popular to most Americans, which was nonetheless a predatory vulture (Pholus) to Central America.



Message: 2
   Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 07:05:28 -0600
   From: jar@xxxxxxx.xx.xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx)
Subject: Re: Political predators

Seeing this data makes me feel how strong the shadow may be and act by itself. Maybe the Centaurs, like Pluto, tend to have the opposites together and represent light and darkness at the same time.

Consider the "charismatic" Oliver North (all data taken from Richard Nolle's site):

Pholus = 18,44 Capricorn
Moon = 23,51 Capricorn
SG35 = 26,21 Capricorn

(Now, as I mentioned before, I'm seeing Pholus as a vulture)

Henry Kissinger:

Moon = 22,32 Libra
Chiron = 19,37 Aries
QM107 = 16,14 Aries
Saturn = 13,43 Libra Rx.

Probably this makes Kissinger a more complex subject. The Chiron aspect may be related to issues of his origins, but he is definitely Machiavellic to me.

I still have to find Richard Nixon's date of death. At birth:

Sun = 19,24 Capricorn
TL66 = 18,44 Capricorn

Together with Kissinger, he was responsible, for example, for dropping more bombs on the civil population of Hanoi in only 2 weeks, than the whole bombing campaign against Germany in WWII.

There's also an interesting pattern in J. Edgar Hoover's chart:

Sun = 10,54 Capricorn
DW2 = 12,32 Capricorn
TL66 = 9,01 Capricorn
Asc. = 10,23 Capricorn

Could it be that TL66 is related, for example to "far away" (e.g. Vietnam) and "covert" (the FBI and Hoover's "secret" sexual practices)?



Message: 3
   Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 09:22:16 -0600
   From: jar@xxxxxxx.xx.xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx)
Subject: Re: Political predators

As I said, seeing this makes me think in the bi-polarity, the shadow-aspect of centaurs like Pholus and SN55, as if when spreading their wings they project their shadow to the external world, which, in terms of politics, is descriptive of US covert and overt involvement in wars and political upheavals outside its frontiers, mainly in Third World countries, poor, fragmented countries "in the making" that will never become whole because the big powers will not allow them to. I know this is my subjective political interpretation, but, what isn't?



Message: 9
   Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 21:31:23 -0600
   From: jar@xxxxxxx.xx.xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx)
Subject: Re: Political predators

I know that politics is a very sensitive subject, especially when the person in question may be the friend of someone who is reading this. But I feel that "the shadow" is very well illustrated here, as in the movie that we commented the other day that you have in video (was its name "The Star Crystal"?). Maybe the centaurs, like Pluto are very big shadows. Alzheimer's disease may be seen as "the person" being eaten from inside little by little. I just saw in t.v. a biography of Nancy Reagan, who uses the expression "a very long good bye". It may well be the "excess" of centaur, the excess of shadow that swallows you.

I have the feeling that the big cometary crossers (SN55-Nessus-1995GO-Pholus) are winged, and, in terms of politics, in their dark aspect, are real vultures.

Here's another "vulture" (I accept that, like Reagan, he is good with his own, and that he is a good person, loves children, etc. But when the shadow spreads, the result is "kill thy neighbors" and invasion):

Benjamin Netanyahu, from another list that got the time from Israel (Oct. 21, 1949 GMT 10:16):

Sun = 27,41 Libra
Pholus = 26,08 Capricorn
Jupiter = 24,01 Capricorn
Moon = 21,06 Libra
1994TA = 22,06 Cancer

If we remember the aggressive activism of Joan Baez (Sun conjunct Pholus) and the social protest of John Lennon (Sun square Pholus), we begin to see a pattern, where the two sides of the same coin are shown. From one of my past messages:

"Joan Baez was born Jan 9 1941, at 11:45 a.m. EST. She has the Sun in 19,04 Capricorn in the 10th, conjunct Mercury in 18,00 Cap and conjunct Pholus in 17,13 Cap. A triple conjunction. It is, in a way, as if she were "the voice" (Mercury) of Pholus, or of this particular position of Pholus. She incarnates Pholus."

"It is interesting to note that John Lennon (OCT 09, 1940, 06:30:00 PM GMD, -01:00) was born with the Sun and Pholus in exact square. Perhaps this made a difference, since the square produces a splitting and a conflict. Joan Baez never had to fight with Pholus or divide herself. All she had to do was spread her wings, her voice with wings."



Message: 1
   Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 09:35:10 -0600
   From: jar@xxxxxxx.xx.xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx)
Subject: Re: Political predators

To my mind, by not being conscious of them, the centaurs develop their shadow aspect more strongly. Perhaps they are "Neptnunian" in this respect, thinking of Neptune as our social/economic responsibility with our neighbors, of which a lot of people is not conscious. I see Bush and Reagan as representing the view that doing everything I can to foster my interests (in their case, the interests of the US) is justified, no matter the damage that I inflict on other countries, i.e., "I will give billions of dollars in weapons and logistics to the anti-Sandinista resistance in Nicaragua, so that they can kill among themselves, as long as no American dies. If thousands of you die or the country is devastated with the bullets I am giving you, and the neighboring countries' traditional social structure comes to pieces, or if they starve because of my economic blockade, I don't care! but if one American dies, I'll turn the world upside down and take revenge!"

I remember a t.v. interview with now deceased King Hussein of Jordan, at the end of 1990. He was very angry, explaining how, after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, he had talked with Saddam Hussein and everything was settled for Saddam to withdrew his troops and go back to Irak. King Hussein was no fool, and understood much better than American politicians the situation in the region... But he was angry because the Americans came with their demands, impositions and belligerent propaganda, not having any interest in the peaceful agreement that had been achieved. This is the chart of George Bush, this is what came (data in R. Nolle's site):

Sun = 21,21 Gemini
Pholus = 22,32 Sagittarius r.
1995GO = 19,01 Sagittarius r.
Uranus = 21,26 Pisces
DW2 = 20,01 Pisces

No wonder Bush, former head of the CIA, invaded Panama, taking Noriega prisoner, since he was no longer bolstering the US drug-related covert operations in the region, and the Pinochet-Hussein-Noriega psychopath or puppet had ceased to obey or to be useful, and was daring to challenge him.

Probably, on the other side of the coin, the "lighter" aspect of these centaurs is what makes them good politicians, popular and with ability to entertain and to be good propagandists. There will be a more private and "local" meaning of these aspects, probably more benign... as long as they don't spread their shadow-wings over the rest of the world.



Message: 6
   Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 20:15:40 -0600
   From: jar@xxxxxxx.xx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Subject: the King of the Vultures

Augusto Pinochet was born 25 Nov. 1915. At 12h GMT, we find:

-- a grand trine...

Sun = 2,08 Sagittarius
Nessus = 2,51 Aries Rx
Neptune = 2,34 Leo Rx

-- a quincunx...

Pluto = 2,51 Cancer Rx

-- and a vulture kissing him...

Pholus = 1,16 Sagittarius



Message: 10
   Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:23:59 -0600
   From: jar@xxxxxxx.xx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Subject: predator or prey?

Some time ago I wrote several posts on "political predators", of politicians with strong Sun/Pholus aspects. Some conclusions were pointing to something like the "shadow" being projected to outsiders (other countries or nations in this case), becoming "vultures", invaders, in terms of how predatory their actions are for the other nations.

Of course, this were only ideas that came. I still would like to see other interpretations of that data (it is all found in my website)

It could also be that, when having those (or similar) aspects, the person may suffer the invasive or predatory action toward himself or herself from others...

This is of course only in terms of the dark side.

Here is an interesting one to add to the list:

John F. Kenedy, May 29th 1917 at 15h EST:

Sun = 7,51 Gemini
Pholus 5,51 Sagittarius

TO66 = 6,54 Sagittarius Rx
DW2 = 6,47 Pisces

What is the meaning of Pholus here? Is he a predator? Is he a prey? Is it joking? An angel? A devil? A hoax?



Message: 8
   Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:28:02 -0600
   From: jar@xxxxxxx.xx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Subject: Re: predator or prey?

... [Pholus] could also be related to the rumors of his association with the Mafia and the assassination conspiracy. Pholus would fit with the whole concept of a conspiracy.

From the point of view of the assassination, he certainly was "prey".



   Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:22:45 -0600
   From: (Juan Revilla)
Subject: [Centaurs] Re: Lawrence of Arabia

"Feisal [played by Alec Guinness in the 1962 film] was a brave, weak, ignorant spirit, trying to do work for which only a genius, a prophet or a freat criminal was fitted. I served him out of pity, a motive which degraded us both" [T.E Lawrence, Seven Pillars of Wisdom]

--no wonder he had the Sun in Leo 23, in square with Jupiter in 27 Scorpio!

from "Twenty-Seven Articles", a manual for political officers on how to handle the Arabs that he wrote in 1917, after being with Feisal 9 months:

"Win and keep the confidence of your leader... never refuse or quash schemes he may put forward; but ensure that they are put forward in the first instance privately to you. Always approve them, and after praise modify them insensibly causing the suggestion to come from him, until they are in accord with your own opinion. When you attain this point, hold him to it, keep a tight grip of his ideas, and push him forward as firmly as possibly, but secretly so that no one but himself (and he not too clearly) is aware of your pressure"

--This thinking is not the friend of the Arabs and the glamorous warrior that is shown in the film. In fact, I have a feeling that it can be ascribed to the exact Sun/Pholus quincunx he had at birth. Such scheming fits well into the "trickster" symbolism of Pholus, and fits also into how his life was a total emptiness after he had retired to England, and which ended in his virtual suicide at age 46.

Intelligence operations may be a good fit for Pholus, and the best "home" for the trickster. It also shows all the "lone-wolf" and invasive associations, and can be used as a factor in the interpretation of Pholus in the charts of prominent politicians, i.e., the predatory nature of intelligenceactivity (for example, ex head of the CIA George Bush has a very tight Sun/Pholus opposition).

In the case of Lawrence, as we saw, the aspect is an exact quincunx:

Sun = 23 Leo
Pholus = 23 Pisces



Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 08:21:51 -0600
From: (Juan Revilla)
Subject: (Ptolomeo) RE: Pinochet y los centauros

<<... Así lo tengo yo... 25/XI/1915 en Valparaíso, a las 19:18:00 hora local. Un abrazo, Yonecko>>

Mil gracias, Diana-Yonecko!

De acuerdo con el "International Atlas", Valparaíso usaba en 1915 5h de diferencia con Greenwich... Esto me da ASC = 12,41 Géminis, Luna = 19,04 Cáncer. Estoy consciente de que muchos participantes de Ptolomeo desechan por completo el uso de los asteroides... pero a veces yo me dejo engañar por la casualidad:

Sol = 2,39 Sagitario
Folo = 1,18 Sagitario
TO66 = 4,11 Sagitario
(punto medio Folo/TO66 = 2,45 Sagitario)

M.C. = 26,26 Piscis
Asbolo = 26,10 Virgo

Veamos esta otra casualidad en la posición de su Luna:

Luna = 19,04 Cancer
TL66 = 19,51 Capricornio

Luna = 7,09 Capricornio
TL66 = 7,02 Capricornio

Bomba de Oklahoma, 19 de abril de 1995
Sol = 29,06 Aries
TL66 = 29,41 Aries

Sol = 13,08 Leo
TL66 = 14,14 Acuario Rx.

Sol = 16,07 Leo
TL66 = 14,11 Acuario Rx.
(punto medio Hiroshima/Nagasaki es 14,37 Leo)

Masacre de Wounded Knee, 29 Dec 1890
Sol = 7,54 Cap
TL66 = 7,06 Cap

1996TL66, como algunos sabrán, es un planetoide extra-plutoniano que completa su órbita en  789 años, "dándole la vuelta" a Neptuno cuando se acerca al Sol y adentrándose en la remotidad cuando está más lejos. Seguro que, como Pinochet tiene su Luna en oposición y Hitler en conjunción con este habitante del Averno, eso significa que no tienen nada que ver y que Pinochet dedicó su vida a combatir los hitleres del mundo que amenazaban con destrucción a la pobre Luna!

Juan Antonio


Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 19:47:35 -0600
From: (Juan Revilla)
Subject: (Ptolomeo) RE: Pinochet y los centauros

Ya se le aproxima la hora... aunque puesto que esta viejito y además enfermo y además bajo un gran estres, más bien uno se pregunta por qué dura tanto, no es necesaria la astrología para deducirlo. Lo interesante es que le está llegando no la hora de la muerte sino la hora de la justicia con este tránsito de Quirón entrando a Sagitario.

Por eso hablan las noticias desde Chile de la heridas que se abren... o que nunca se han cerrado, lo que corresponde con toda exactitud con el simbolismo de Quirón.

Lo de que la muerte lo ronda... yo creo que lo ha rondado siempre, por eso tiene el Sol en conjunción con un buitre y la Luna en oposición a un mensajero del Averno que lo conecta con Hitler.

Juan Antonio


Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:02:47 -0600
From: (Juan Revilla)
Subject: [crp] Re: Chiron/Pluto ....thoughts

The recent CIA release of documentation dealing with its involvement in the military overthrow of the  government of Allende in Chile in 1973 is a case in point --though not related to the 50-year cycle.

There are more documents to come, but the ones released so far show that the CIA played a role in the assassination of Charles Borman, right after Pinochet usurped power (there is an excellent film on this called "Missing", dir. by Costa-Gavras 1982)

This has been in the news all week as is the pending trial of Pinochet for crimes against humanity. According to the news, even though an appeal is pending this October 18, nothing will save him from being extradited to Spain from England, where he is a prisoner at his home now. He is an old and sick man, but he is being charged for murder and torture.

This has been the cause of many wounds re-opened in Chile, as the whole society is now divided among those that support Pinochet and want him back in Chile (where he has lived and will always live in impunity), and those that want him being tried and sentenced for his crimes.

He was born Nov.25 1915, at 19:18 in Valparaiso:

Sun = 2,39 Sagitario
Pholus = 1,18 Sagitario

Now being transited by Chiron. Melanie's description: <<... sensitive documents relating to political and historical events. .. many stories of truth coming out, a suitably Sagittarian theme. Lots of pain, betrayal and horror being revealed, but also lots of healing, forgiveness and reconciliation.>>



Message: 13
   Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 13:38:04 -0600
   From: jar@xxxxxxx.xx.xx (Juan Revilla)
Subject: Lee-Harvey Oswald

Lee-Harvey Oswald was born Oct. 18, 1939, in New Orleans; according to the Matrix celebrity database (which unfortunately never gives the source of the data), the birth-time was 9:55 p.m.:

Moon = 13,52 Cap
Pholus = 13,49 Cap
TO66 = 14,33 Cap

He was the incarnation of a renegade: born after his father had died, raised by a domineering mother, defected from the US army to Moscow, left the USSR and lived a very marginal life, wanted to go to Cuba but was rejected by Castro...

(BTW, the Moon/Pholus conjunction is exact also by latitude, just like the "Son of Sam" serial killer)

There is an interesting pattern in his life regarding 1999OX3-Hylaeus (assuming, of course, that these positions will not change too much when a new orbit is calculated):

at birth:

Sun = 24,52 Libra
OX3 = 25,53 Libra

he was shot by Jack Ruby the morning after he killed J.F.K., Nov. 24, 1963:

Sun = 1,04 Sagittarius (precession=20')
OX3 = 1,17 Sagittarius

I don't know the exact time when he was shot, except that it was "in the morning", in Texas. Assuming 9 a.m.

Moon = 4,53 Pisces
TL66 = 4,15 Pisces

His Mars at birth is in 11,27 Aquarius. When he shot president Kenedy (Nov. 23, 1963 12:30 p.m. CST), the tr. Moon was in 10,55 Aquarius conjunct Damocles in 11,40 Aquarius (so he was shot the day after with Damocles tr. conjunct radical Mars).

Anyway, we can forget about OX3 and about Damocles: the Moon/Pholus conjunction seems very consistent with the "social waste" type of person: this is how he felt.



Message: 5
   Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 14:13:36 -0600
   From: jar@xxxxxxx.xx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: isn't it (ch)ironic?

Hugh awakened my interest to check the following charts:

the so-called "Independence" of _Panama_: Nov. 3, 1903, 6:00 PM LMT. Panama City, source: Jimm Erickson in "American Astrology", Sept 1990, p.60. _Colombia_: Dec 17, 1819, 12:12 P.M. LMT. 8n08/70w34, source: American Astrology April 1991 p.35. _Invasion_ and bombing of Panama by George Bush: Dec 20, 1989, 0:00 AM EST. 8n58/79w36, source: American Astrology April 1990 p.17. _George Bush_: June 12, 1924, 11:20 AM EDT. 42n15/71w05, source: American Astrology April 1990 p.18. _Official Protocol_ of the Canal returned to Panama: December 14, 1999 12 noon. approx. 8n58/71w05, source: the news today.

There are a lot of interesting centaur themes in these charts, as Hugh has showed. For the moment, I just want to mention one: I have said that Pholus is "invasion", also "predatory", describing the relationship between the metropolis and the colony, etc...

Let's look first at the birth of Panama:

  Sun = 10,22 Scorpio
  Pholus of Colombia = 12,07 Scorpio

Without precession=10,56 Scorpio. Today Venus is there: 10,16 without precession, 8,56 with precession!... perhaps making the link to the chart of ex-president Carter?

Now let's see the time of the invasion:

  Sun = 27,05 Sag
  Pholus = 25,05 Gemini

Which is the inversion of the radix of Bush:

  Sun = 21,04 Gemini
  Pholus = 25,05 Gemini



Message: 2
   Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 11:00:44 -0600
   From: jar@xxxxxxx.xx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Vlad Putin

>Vladimir Putin's natal chart Oct 7,1952 at 1:00 am, St Petersburg)...

I personally think that Mercury/Neptune has nothing to do with deception, but I accept most don't agree with me. It has more to do with a subtleness of thinking (or "science") that is oriented toward the social/economical (Neptune) and political (Pluto) sphere.

The KGB "image" and his personal charisma is --to me-- more related to Pholus/Moon/QM107 in this case (assuming this is his real birth time)

  QM107   = 27,12 Can
  Moon    = 28,12 Tau
  Pholus  = 29,51 Cap

while his military background and takeover of Chechenia I see in:

  Chariklo= 24,30 Sag
  Mars    = 26,16 Sag

and also of note is the following emphasis on TL66 (=devastation)

  Jupiter = 19,47 Tau r
  Node    = 20,02 Aqu
  TL66    = 20,57 Aqu r



Message: 5
   Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 12:26:44 -0600
   From: jar@xxxxxxx.xx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Vlad Putin


... All this [Mercury/Neptune/Pluto] belong to propaganda, information and  disinformation technology, etc., which is the basis of intelligence, but in my view all this is very impersonal and "technical", more abstract, which is the nature of the Mercury/Neptune/Pluto combination, which has a lot to do with policies, strategies, and tactics.

I would say that the *personal* involvement with all of this, becoming a "KGB man", is more obscure and is more related to Moon/Pholus, which gives the "night stalker" and sinister "professional bastard", trickster-like dimension associated with being a spy, or with being head of operations that are predatory on other human beings, or with being a manipulative liar.

But of course now I am talking in the abstract, not about Putin necessarily (he has them in trine).



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